SENTIMENTAL VALUE (2025) Paired with Gentle Mental Vino

Sentimental Value is the 6th feature film by Joachim Trier and co-writer Eskil Vogt, and his second partnering with actress Renate Reinsve after The Worst Person in the World in 2021.

THE WINES:

Zulal Areni, Vayots Dzor, Armenia

2023 K Vintners Art Den Hoed Viognier

Transcript

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It's a brand new week, but dear listeners, we didn't pick a movie to watch this week. So what we're gonna have to do is decide on something right here, right now. What do we wanna cover this week? You know, Dallas, let's maybe, let's do, we've been doing a lot of old movies lately. We've been doing the 80s, we've been doing the 90s, 40s. So let's do something recent. Let's do, I'm talking like, you know, 2025, 2026, 2025 will be at the oldest, okay? um And America sucks right now, so fuck America. Let's do Europe or Canada. Canada is pretty cool still. So maybe Canada, maybe Europe, maybe a co-production, maybe a co-production between Norway, France, Germany, Denmark and Sweden in that order. ah We've been covering, you know what? We've been doing really heavy movies lately as well. like Lister's and MacGruber. So enough with the drama. Let's aim for some lighthearted themes this week like childhood abandonment, war crimes, maybe torture, suicide, dysfunctional parent child relationships and the tension between artistic expression and the real human connection. So essentially a romcom, but without the rom or the com. I don't know. What are you thinking? Any ideas? You got damn right I got some ideas Dave I may just have one for you breezy at under 2.5 hours. Let me read you the synopsis first and then I'll let you decide. Sisters Nora played by Renata Rinzve and Agnes played by Inga Ytts daughter Lilius I'm fucking that up and it's fantastic. Leave it in the comments people reunite with their estranged father the charismatic Gustav, played by Stellan Skarsgard, a once renowned director who offers stage actress Nora a role in what he hopes will be his comeback film. When Nora turns it down, she soon discovers that he has given her part to an eager young Hollywood star played by Elle Fanning. Suddenly, the two sisters must navigate their complicated relationship with their father and deal with an American star dropped right into the middle of their complex family. dynamics. How about that? I don't know, they did kind of want war crimes and suicide. Don't worry. There's a little bit. Let's do it. Delivers on both counts. Alright, alright, what's the movie? Alright, so today people, we are talking about 2025 Sentimental Value directed by Joaquin Trier with co-writing credit also going to Eskil Vogt and Trier himself. But right now, let's give the people what they deserve, Dave, and roll that intro. Are you not entertained? Yes, sir! We'll have a real good time! He's Dave and I'm Dallas and this is Ventertainment. We have opinions on just about everything. Sometimes those opinions are spot on. Sometimes they go down easier with a glass of wine. This is entertainment. The why. next. Welcome everybody to Vintertainment. This is of course the podcast where we pair wine with entertainment. It is as simple as that. And before we get to today's film, which we watched at 30 times speed. just while that intro was playing. But we swear we got the full effect of that speed. We're pros at this. No need to belabor experiencing things in normal time. Learn to time management, Max losers. So before we get to our deep and intelligent thoughts on a film we've watched at 30x speed, we first have to do our wine trivia question of the week. Woo. All right. All right. All right. All right. Are you ready? David can's. Are you ready? It is my turn yet again to test you. All right. The question is in 1945 after the German occupation left Norway, there were about 40000 liters of Bordeaux wine left behind. That's a lot. The it's a lot right? That's a lot. The then monoplet Monoplet started selling it using a not unfamiliar nicknaming logic not dissimilar to that of to buck Chuck found at Trader Joe's. What was the nickname used to refer to these bottles of boredo? Is it a femme fatna? B Sivskaruti, si, sexkrona, or di, ata Alex. Once again, we're looking for the nickname for these bottles, 400,000 bottles, 400,000 liters, sorry, of Bordeaux left behind after the German occupation in Norway. A, femtfotne, B, Sivskaruti, si, sexkrona, di, ata Alex. All right. Well, first off, can I just say I love when you wrote that question, you're like not unfamiliar, not dissimilar to it's like similar to my brain. My brain had to like work that out. It's like exactly. It's so funny. I I I write that way, too, though, so often, like the way I naturally like sentences naturally come out of me is always in this like twisted. like turn over turn over turn and there's such a simpler more straightforward way to say it and I'm like, Oh God, what am It's interesting when it's simpler though. Yeah, but I'm like, what am I some patriarch from the 18th century? Like, fuck a duck. Like, just say it straightforwardly. Anyway, Alright, Scyth, Scaruti, Sexkrona, Atta, Alix. All right. Well, I have no f-ing idea. um But ah I do know uh Kroner is the Norwegian money. Norwegian, what word am I looking for? Currency. The Norwegian currency. um But Atte Alex, I like Atte Alex as a name. I want it to be Atte Alex just because I'm like, that rings. That just slips off the tongue, at least in my very American... tongue is like Alex, but I don't know what it is. And but it could be like to but Chuck, where you've got the Chuck part in there. um But sex, Kroner could be like that sounds like a six or seven Kroner. I no idea what them partner or Sibs Karuti is or could be. So just because Kroner is the one and only thing that I recognize on this list, let's go for C sex Kroner. All right, I'm going to give the audience a minute to go ahead and tell Dave he is in actually no, he's right. The answer is he sex Kroner. Just to go through the choices here. uh Number one, sex meaning six, of course, and Kroner being the denomination. ah The bottles were basically six Kroner per bottle. um So Femme Fottner is basically Femme for five. Fottner is just a nickname. uh Civ is Scruti, uh Civ being seven, Scruti being a nickname, uh Eight being Atta, and uh Alex being a nickname. So just combinations of names and numbers. But the correct answer is Sexkroner. By the way, the Vin Monopole is Norway's government-controlled sale of wine, actually. uh It's termed the wine monopoly, which governs the sale of any alcohol over 4.7 % 4.75 % ABV all done for the sake of the people as Norway has historically had a curious relationship with alcohol over indulgence. we would have no idea what that's like or our government having a weird relationship to alcohol. Americans, we are so normal. All right. Well, that has been our wine trivia question of the week. And now it's time to get to our movie, which is we haven't actually named the movie yet. So, folks, hopefully you read the title of this podcast or you never know. Maybe some algorithm was like, hey, this is the next thing you're listening to. And you're like, OK, I'll see where this goes. So we are talking about twenty twenty five's sentimental value directed by Joachim Trier. That's how he pronounces name in an interview recently where. I'm so used to Joaquin Phoenix. I'm always like in my head, it's always been Joaquin Trier. um But it is Joaquin Trier. So okay, Joaquin. So directed by Joaquin Trier, and his second partnering with actress Renate Reinswe, after the worst person in the world in 2021, which is a very good movie. I've seen that one as well. So that one is awesome. um This one sentimental value was nominated for nine Oscars, including best international feature film, Original screenplay, film editing, best supporting actor for Stellan Skarsgård, best supporting actress for Elle Fanning, best supporting actress again for Inga Ibsdottir-Lilas and best lead actress for Renata Reinsva. Best director for uh Joachim, jeez, I always want go back to Joachim. Joachim, Joachim, Joachim, Joachim Trier. Joachim Trier and best picture. But of all of these, because it's the Oscars and they're all a bunch of dirty foreigners in this film, it only won for best international feature film. Though by doing so, it did become the first Norwegian film to ever win that category. But let's start at the beginning, folks. A very good place to start. Joachim Trier and regular co-writer Eskel Vot hit the scenes with Reprise, uh a 2007 film that took them five years to write. They followed that with Oslo August 31st. That is the full name of the film Oslo August 31st in 2011. The second of what would become Trier's Oslo Trilogy, the first being reprised, the second being Oslo August 31st. Then his stab at a film with a Hollywood cast in Louder Than Bombs in 2015, a stab at a horror movie with Thelma. in 2017 and then he concluded the Oslo trilogy with the worst person in the world in 2021. Now the Oslo trilogy are all set in Oslo and features actor Anders Danielsen and you pronounce his last name Lai or Lee or do you know? Nope, not close. both. Great lie. Anders, I like someone whose last name is Lye. So we're going with Anders Danielson Lye in a leading role in all of these films. um And they tend to revolve around a theme of social exclusion. Now, Trish Thelma was also set in Oslo and also had a similar core theme, but does not have Lye, if I'm pronouncing that right, in the cast or Lee in the cast, and therefore is not considered a part of that trilogy. Now, writing high. Off the conclusion of his Oslo trilogy, Trier found himself with a blank slate for what he was going to tackle next. When asked about the inspiration for Sentimental Value, Trier stated, quote, The trigger for the story was when my mother put my grandparents house up for sale. I realized all of the 20th century had happened in that house. My grandfather was a resistance fighter who was tortured and barely survived. then became a filmmaker and even went to Cannes in 1960. I think filmmaking was his way of coping with that trauma. It got me and co-writer Eskel Vought thinking about broader things like how the war affected families. Does it take three generations to get rid of that?" Unquote. The story of sentimental value centers around a charismatic director father, Stellan Skarsgård. who returns to the lives of his estranged daughters and the home that's been in the family for generations, just as he prepares to mount a new feature film. Not unlike Skarsgard's character in the film, Trier himself has been collaborating with many of the same artisans and craft persons for years. The team for Sentimental Value would go on to include frequent collaborators, casting director... Including... Ingbo, Ingbo, including casting director Ingbo Kolset Haga, cinematographer Caspar Tuxen, or Tuxen, production designer Jorgen Strangeby, I like that one too, Strangeby Larsen, and editor Olivier Bougecout, maybe. C-O-U-T-T-E, beats me guys, beats me guys. Olivier Bougecout. Tuxen. had previously collaborated with Trier on The Worst Person in the World. Now, according to Kodak.com, Tuxen says, quote, uh Joachim and I absorbed The Age of Innocence, Martin Scorsese's 1993 movie, for its camera movement and depictions of the passage of time, plus opening night, the John Cassavetes movie from 1977, for its visualization of an actress struggling with a nervous breakdown. We also considered films by Woody Allen. specifically those shot by DP Gordon Willis as inspirations for the moods in different scenes. Casting director Ingvill, Ingvill? God, God. I always forget. Set it. Okay. Man, 30 seconds later, I'm so bad with names. I'm so bad with names. Casting director, Inval Colset Haga is reported to have spent a year casting due to an extensive process of script engagement for this film's sentimental value. Quote, out of all my collaborators, she's sometimes the one who asks the most difficult questions because she is an actor herself, unquote. That is what Trier says. Production designer, Jorgen Strange by Larsen revealed that he and Trier had previously shot at the very same house that centers sentimental value. Quote, it turned out to be the house where we also shot Oslo August 31st, 14 years prior. So I knew it very well, unquote. Trier had scouted dozens of houses before arriving at this one, which when he arrived, he didn't actually seek it out. He arrived and he recognized it and real was just one of the houses they were gonna scout. He recognized it and realized he'd been there before. and instantly began seeing how the scenes from the script could be shot there. Likely, the familiarity, the memories spurred this, which are poetically the very themes of the movie itself, having this type of history and memories with a home. They also built a studio replica of the house to be able to dress it in different eras throughout history. The cast was able to rehearse in the house to fully understand and familiarize themselves to the space. And the fact that the house was actually lived in, was actually someone's house. They had to rent it from that person. That helped this feeling to be natural for everyone. But it is editor Olivier Bouge Couté, who is Trier's longest collaborator. We're to try every version and then one of them might be right. You know, we're just going to keep we're just going to keep going with that. Trier's longest collaborator as their relationship predates even their time in the National Film School in London. Trier has a special reverence for the art of editing and often mentions that too few actors thank the editors when they are accepting awards. Amen. That is actually really true. Now I think the reason actors do that, it's like the one part of the film that like actors really take no pardon. So like, yeah, so it's like they understand what this, yeah, the cinematographer, the lighting guy, the hair and makeup people, the costume, they're like, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. The editor, they're sort of like, they don't see what the editor does. But to be fair, it's not like they don't know that editing happens and what I just think it is out of sight out of mind. Yeah. Anyways, regarding the title, Trier says, quote, I grew up in the 90s. I come from irony. But this time I wanted intimacy and tenderness. I've had two kids since the last movie and I keep asking, what do I pass on to them and what was passed on to me? That matters to me now. My line now is tenderness is the new punk. Trier and Watt knew they were on a knife's edge with this material. Quote, we were opening the faucet a bit, says Watt. It's easy to manipulate emotions. It's easy to make people cry. That's not a measure of quality. The title sentimental value was our way of admitting it. These emotions have value only if they come from an honest place. So with a budget of seven point eight million, principal photography commenced in August 2024 in Oslo. shooting for 63 days until late November. Cinematographer Caspar Tuxen mainly shot the production in 35 millimeter with flashback scenes set in the 1920s and 30s shot in 16 millimeter. All right, that's the history. I mean, this is brand new movie, so there's not a lot of history to be had from it. But that is the history that we know that we could dredge up. Now it's time to tackle the movie itself. So folks, this is the part of the podcast we begin to break the film down into three acts, give a brief synopsis for each act and discuss our thoughts on that segment of the movie as well as our wine pairing thoughts as we go. What were we thinking after act one or during act one versus act two when we finally settle on a pairing and reveal them after act three? Here we go. All right. Act one. Rinsva is about to go on stage in a major theatrical production, but she suffers a panic attack to the point of trying to tear off her costume and demanding her male co-star slap her. After a lengthy and mildly traumatic delay, Nora goes on stage and gives a performance that elicits a standing ovation. We later learn that Nora and her sister Agnes, played by Inge, Ib's daughter, Lilius, their mother, has passed away. The sisters gather with family after the funeral at their family home where the mother has still been living. Nora is single but with a sort of boyfriend, the co-star who had to slap her of course, though he is married to another person, while Agnes, the other sister, is married with one child, Edik. During their mother's wake, Nora shows Edik an upstairs fireplace where they can hear the conversations from downstairs. Nora overhears the voice of her and Agnes's father, Gustav, played of course by Stellan Skarsgard, a noted film director who abandoned the family when the sisters were young. While Agnes has a dist- While Agnes has a decent relationship with Gustav, Nora retains animosity toward him for having left the family. Gustav later invites Nora to a restaurant to try and catch up. Gustav shows Nora the script that he's written for her or specifically for his latest project and reveals that he wants her to star in it. But she declines, suspecting he only wants her to get funding and has little care for her besides that. Later, Gustav attends a film festival where they show one of his older films. We learn that he hasn't made a new film in quite some time. His daughter Agnes, the one who didn't grow up to become an actress plays a pivotal role in that film as an amateur child actor. And the crowd comments on how good she is in the part. American actress Rachel Kemp played by Elle Fanning whose film is also screening at the festival is moved by Gustav's and invites him to join her dinner party. They bond and Gustav decides to offer her the lead role that he intended for Nora. Back at the family home, Nora and Agnes go over personal items of quote unquote sentimental value that belonged to their mother. Gustav and Rachel soon arrive as Gustav plans to shoot his film in this house. Gustav describes the project to Rachel as being inspired by his own mother. who died in the house by suicide. A flashback shows Gustav's mother joining the resistance against the Nazis after which she is imprisoned and tortured as a result. When Gustav was seven years old, she hung herself. We briefly see Gustav's life growing up in the house, emotionally isolated from the adults before he himself marries and becomes a father to Nora and Agnes. All right, act one discussion. thoughts. So thoughts on act one, a lot of dysfunction in this family, even at this beginning, um but you know, very little overt drama. We're just kind of going back to what they were saying about manipulating emotions and they didn't want to do that. They wanted all the emotion to come from an honest place. And so this movie, outside of very, there's, think our main girl, Nora, um she is the most, quote unquote, maybe eccentric character of the bunch. You she's got to get, she has the stage fright. She's got to get slapped by her co-star who she's dating, even though he's married. Like she plainly has the most obvious visible issues that she's dealing with. And everyone else has got issues, but they're, they're much more subtext and under the surface. And she's letting a lot more hang out than others. But for the most part, this movie, no histrionics, um not a lot of overt drama. um I think all these characters, the two daughters and then the father, they have a past that's just like full of trip wires. um This quote unquote sentimental value is being avoided between all of them so that they can avoid the feelings of abandonment and hurt that come along with it because he left them. We're going to get a little more into that in Act Two and Three here in just a moment. But this then makes the past something for them purely negative because you're just avoiding it, right? or purely almost like fictional, like a story that happened, but not something that exists in the because they're not dealing with it in the present. And so it needs so it needs to be absorbed into the present for these folks to actually like have true blue relationships with each other. So, you know, Act one right away, you realize this is about generational trauma passed down from the parent to child, that father to daughter relationship that is like kind of the meat. of everything. But the energy here is controlled and studied. So it's gentle, only occasionally electric in small moments, and never too much even then. So I was, you know, for me, I was already thinking wine wise, like obviously something with family roots. something with a family dynamic with the winemakers, ideally a father daughter team of some kind if possible. I don't know how dysfunctional that father daughter team could possibly be if the winery was functional. So maybe it's actually a functional father daughter team, but maybe something where there's a father daughter dynamic involved. um And a wine that would like so far just watching this I'm like, okay, complex, but gentle. Like this is such a just you're just watching the movie, you're just taking it in. So contemplative. But in terms of that complexity, nothing that's hitting you hard in any way because this is just like watch these people just do their thing and see what happens. So what about you? What's your take on Act 1? I like that. Yeah, I will say the opening sequences for this film are some of some of the best filmmaking I've actually enjoyed in a while. So simple. It's got there's a there's a darkness you find to a lot of the sort of Nordic uh stuff. It's sort of just simmering. It's not a theme they're trying to play up, but it's just it's the architecture. It's kind of just built into the architecture. And you see it in these opening scenes when she's on stage. um That, you know, the sequence when she's she has to be slapped and she's having this panic attack. And the only thing that and you don't really know where that's going. Right. So when we walk into this film and we're on board into this film, we just think she's about to run out of this fucking theater and leave this performance high and dry. But we quickly learn that, OK, this might be just part of her process. Right. And uh It's kind of a reference for the rest of the film, honestly, because she is so potent and so powerful, but also so understated. And you can tell the emotions in this family are so potent and so powerful, but they are muted. And like you said, it's kind of like a mythos in the background, you know, that. you know, they never address again part of the architecture. No one ever looks at it. The house is burning, but you know, we've got flowers on the table and the television. to be fair, that is that is families in general, right? Because family just goes back. You've got generation of generation. Sometimes kids don't really know the backstory. And kind of that's true for this family as well is like they know their dad and they know their mom. But you go back to the grandparents and they know only some. That's right. And especially the dark like they know their grandmother committed suicide. If you really want to get into the why of the suicide and what part of the grandmother's life led to that. That's not something they've delved into. No one threw it on them, which is, think, probably a good thing. Like, no one's like, here, carry this load. You know, so they hold that back from them. But then it also keeps them a little bit at arm's length to like, what is this family? Who is this dad who is carrying the weight, who was saddled with the weight of that suicide of his own, of his mother committing suicide and for and for reasons he understands. But his kids do not. No clue there. There's a you know, again, there's that dissonance. There's that degree of separation. You can see it, like you said, in every family. So wine wise, I like this idea of the top layer being like this film is it's very easily too easy to watch. It's very easy to watch. It's very easy to sort of ingest and take in. You just sit and this story just sort of plays out. And there's so much dynamic if you are really paying attention. There's so much dynamic. You know, that scene where she has to get slapped is the funniest shit I have seen in such a long time, but it's, it's beneath this. Have you seen the worst person in the world? Have you ever seen her? Watching it and did not finish and this film me okay Yeah, yeah, yeah, cuz I was gonna say her character is has a lot of similarities She's kind of a slightly more grown-up version of that same character and then Yeah, no 21, buddy Wait, what? yeah, you're right. Oh shit, that's right. right. I'm thinking of the other one. Yeah, go ahead. Wow. Yeah. So just from twenty twenty one, so five years ago from now, roughly. But just in terms, I think the character in this one is meant to be a bit more um approaching middle ish life rather than like, you know, young to mid 20s. It's sort of like, well, now you're definitely in your 30s and maybe even upper 30s. like she's still drifting. a bit and trying to find it. But in a similar way where worst person in the world, I think the point of that movie was kind of like how we're all the worst person in the world in our 20s because we're so navel gazing and we're so in our own heads. And so and we were testing the limits of everything while we can and can bounce back from it. But then we're the collateral damage of other people isn't something we care that much about or even really attuned to. So we're all kind of that worst person. And then by your 30s, you're like, OK, What am I doing with my life? What's the direction? And you can really see this thematically in many ways is like, yeah, this is a continuation of that character into this part of life. But now we're getting into the I forget it's been a while since I've seen Worst Person in the World. So I forget what that character's story was specifically. So I'm not sure if you can tit for tat say this is you treat this like a sequel. Probably not. But in terms of good. now we're delving into like, OK, what makes all these people tick? at this point. Yeah, got it. So yeah, I'm thinking maybe an interesting white which has some I think this film is probably going to need something with a bit more color, so to speak, a bit more sort of, you know, dynamic in terms of flavor and notes and things like that, because it is kind of austere and sort of simmering beneath uh the the top layer. So um yeah, we'll see where that goes. But yeah. All right, onward, act two. Gustav and Rachel start to promote the film early on. During a press interview, one reporter questions Rachel about the lukewarm reception to her last film, which clearly makes her uncomfortable. Gustav interjects and insults the reporter while praising Rachel as the best talent of her generation before kicking the reporter out. Meanwhile, Nora is forced to see Gustav again at Eric's birthday party where he gifts his grandson, Irreversible, and the piano teacher. Movies that Nora knows and movies we all know are inappropriate. The party goes well until Nora later calls Gustav out for his abandonment of them. Later at night, Gustav gets drunk and tries to leave a message for Nora, explaining himself to the best of his ability. The message time limit on that message though cuts him off. And we never actually see if Nora listens to the message or what she thinks of it if she ever did. Agnes later goes to the library to look up information on their grandmother, the one who committed suicide in the house. She becomes emotional as she reads recollections of the grandmother being tortured for anti-Nazi propaganda. Meanwhile, Rachel tries to get into character for the role. though she feels she may be inauthentic since she will be speaking English while all the other actors will speak in Swedish, very Italian of them, very like Italian jallow. Everyone just be like, we're gonna dub over everything anyways, except in this case, we're not even gonna dub over it, I don't think. She tries to learn to speak with a Scandinavian accent and also dyes and cuts her hair to more resemble Nora. There's kind of a doppelganger thriller buried in this movie there somewhere. Yeah. But not this movie. That's not this movie. Anyways, meanwhile, meanwhile, Gustav approaches Agnes to try and get her son Eric into the film for the role of Rachel's son. Agnes asks Gustav if he will attend Nora's upcoming show, and he says, sure, he will. Rachel later visits Nora at the theater where her show is going to play. They discuss Gustav and the project, and Rachel admits her insecurities and knows the role was meant for Nora. But Nora insists that she and Gustav cannot work together because they cannot communicate. End of Act 2. Alright, any new thoughts on this one Dallas kicks off here. I just like the, um you know, that generational trauma thing really, it's not heavy handed by any stretch of the imagination. It's clear, but it's not heavy handed. I like that, you know, we start to... get in touch with that original trauma of the mom suicide of course and then we're starting to draw sort of know tethers to what's happening in the future. We begin to learn some more about Nora's situation and how it relates back to grandma um and her difficult a scene, right? And we see that there's a scene in Act Two. This wasn't in our little synopsis, but in one of the scenes that Rachel's trying to prepare for is the fact that she's going to attempt to suicide like the mother, like the grandmother. And at one point, she talks to Gustav about that. And he says straight up, he's like, this isn't about my mother. And you're like, well, and you said even me as a viewer, I'm back. like, what are you? What are you talking about? Like, what else could it be about? Right? I'm gonna push back on that one second just as a person who spends a lot of time sort of this world building and writing stuff. It's like having done that myself, I totally understand the response. No, no, I understand it. But but but but but in terms of like him did not like it feels like such a denial on the character's part is my. Yeah, for sure. And I think that's intentional because as a person, I don't want to get into digging. I wasn't saying it wasn't intentional. I was my confusion was with the characters. Like I was like, what are you fucking talking about? You character, not the scriptwriter. Right, right, right. Right. So me as a viewer, I wasn't questioning the movie. I was just saying, like, right. Like, come on, man. Like, like who? Even even though you're talking to this American actress who now she does kind of know your family, you basically told her she's in the house. Right. And she's like, Oh, so this is like, what about should I get more information about your mother? And he's like, Oh, this isn't about my mother. And even to the like the Rachel character, it's sort of like, what are why else would you write the scene? Like, it's one of those things that was such an interesting and it sort of we leave it at that like no one really pushes back on him for it. But it was such an interesting moment, where he just flatly is like, this isn't about my mother and walks away. And not not in a mean way. He's not angry. He's not like an end of discussion. Like, no, he's just like, this isn't about my mother. And then he just like casually walks away and you're like, huh? So. denial of the backstory of the mythos of the reality. It's like, push that to the back. It's not important. It's not affecting me to where I write a scene about my mother, right? It's like there's some it's like, but why? Of course, you're influenced by the suicide of your mother. It is one of those interesting things we're going to get a little more into. There's a there's one more layer to this. We're to get into an act three. But even with that extra layer, it still doesn't entirely answer this moment in act two, which is like why he just flatly denies anything that has anything to do with the mother. Yeah. So, you know for me this was a really interesting I really liked I think act to the Nora Rachel dynamic that really happened here where he's replacing Nora with L fanning um This has strong similarities. Do you remember clouds of sills Maria? Did you watch that for our movies within movies? Uh-huh Julia Binoche. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah So 2014 Olivier a say us Julia Binoche plays an aging actress with her and her PA Slash Handler is played by Kristen Stewart. um Chloe Grace Moretz plays the younger actress who is cast to play a role that Binoche played in her youth, the character that Binoche is playing, played in her youth. And now Binoche is cast to play the older part. And here comes this younger actress having to play the role that she sort of started back in the day. And there's this fascinating thing that all European film people seem to do that Americans don't, which is they talk about their character in the third person. Mm Which is like Nora is someone who yada yada yada. I was even watching interviews for this movie and like, you know, Renate Reinsville was like, oh, and Nora is she does this and and there's something issue with Nora and like keeps naming her by third person. And it's so funny because Americans just talk about movies like, yeah, my character, my character kind of blah, blah, blah. Right. And and Europeans are always like, I'm given my character's name like she's a person. You know, it's like Nora. is this and that and I feel like Americans are like, you don't know the name of my character. I'm not going to throw the name at you. Like, come on. But it's so much more right. Well, sort of. And then in Clouds Silas Maria, they do the same thing. And in this movie, like when they talk about characters and when they're talking about the script, everything they talk a lot about these things. I feel like is not something that Americans do nearly as much. I'm sure we do it up to a point. Not to. Yeah, not and not to this level where it's just like just exploring, exploring, exploring, all talking about it before then finally arriving and shooting. But there were a lot. I saw a lot of clouds of Silas Maria in this dynamic between Rachel and Nora and Stellan Scar's garden, Gustav. um And I really appreciated I really appreciated that, you know, they talk about their characters in the movie. So the like Nora talking about whatever she's playing in the play and L. Fanning's character talking about the character she's about to play for Gustav and whatnot. And they do it almost to this parody level of how actual Europeans do in actual interviews and whatnot of that thing. And yet by doing so, they almost start to talk about themselves. In those moments, like they talk about the character, but then they always keep. you get through those conversations. It's sort of without addressing it directly, without a character just coming out and saying, like, I feel this way and I am this or my past is this. They just relate things in their own life with the character and or the things that don't match with the character. And that's almost the way you get to know these characters is through a lot of that type of dialogue. It's an inside out sort of approach to character, which you find a lot in, I don't want to say European acting, but yeah, it's like an inside out approach. Yeah. And and by the way, guys, yes, we did do a two part episode where we did movies within movies and we covered clouds of Silas Marius and that and the movie there. We could do this movie now. Now that we know we'll get to actually we'll get to act three here in just a moment. But we could have added that. we we did it with a wonderful guest decarceration. um You can find him on Substack, but he is someone that was a guest of the American prison system for a decade. And now that he's out, he reviews all movies that he missed while he was locked away and advocates for decarceration or at least a more just criminal justice system. Go check him out. uh Yes. And we did a really loopy fake movies within movies paired with fake drinks within movies. So you should definitely go check those episodes out. But anyway, yeah act two nothing really changed. I still wanted something with the family dynamic and It was still like complex but gentle like this is all subtle layered complex but nothing too um Nothing too punchy. Nothing too extreme something something gentle and subtle Picking up on that watchability and that drinkability, this film is so watchable. There was no point when I wanted to check out or it was just you just you sit for the ride and you know, every scene, it stimulates you just enough to want to get to the next scene. And that is a I hate to say it. It's a rare quality in film these days where it's clearly, you know. A leads to B leads to C leads to D with very interesting sort of catalyst in between. I am looking for a wine I think that is drinkable in that same way or just stimulate to enough to keep you going and drinking and drinking. All right. Act three. Quick spoiler alert for everyone listening. There isn't really a plot twist per se at the end of this movie, but the way this movie ends, you want to go into it quote unquote spoiler free for it to have the impact that it's supposed to have. think knowing about it in advance will probably lessen that impact. So if you haven't seen this movie yet, watch it first, come back and listen to the end of this for Act Three or skip ahead to our wine. reveal chapters and skip the whole act three chapter because we're going to talk about the ending because it's powerful and it's wonderful. But that's your spoiler alert. That's your spoiler warning. If you don't listen to it, that's on you. Here we go. So Agnes attends Nora's show that night waiting for Gustav to show up, but he never does. Both sisters are visibly disappointed even though Nora tries to hide it from Agnes. Rachel later visits Gustav at home to tell him that she feels she is not right for the project and wishes to drop out, but she will stay on if it's what Gustav really wants. He says he does. but that he understands how much she no longer wishes to see this through and he gives her a hug before sending her home. She is released from the movie. Gustav! visits Agnes with the script for his film. She tells him that she does not want Eric to be in his film the way she had been when she was a child. She also makes it clear her own frustrations with him abandoning the family that they had been so close while doing the film together and then he simply left never looking back. Gustav leaves the script with Agnes who reluctantly looks it over before going to bed. Agnes visits Nora at home to check on her. She brings Gustav script. which Agnes says she thinks is very beautiful and reinforces the idea that the script was written both for and about Nora. While she is reluctant to read it, Agnes convinces her to read a specific monologue, one that Rachel earlier practiced. Nora is moved to tears while reading it. They discuss the rest of the script, specifically the suicide scene and how Gustav couldn't have known that Nora actually attempted suicide herself once. in the past. Agnes believes he mixed in aspects of Kareem's life, but the connection hits home for Nora. Nora wonders out loud how Agnes grew up so normal while she turned out so fucked up. And Agnes states simply that Nora was always there for her. Nora had no one to be there for her. But Agnes had Nora, the sisters embrace. Gustav later collapses at home after another drunken evening. The sisters visit him in the hospital and laugh as they see him flirting with a nurse. We then cut to a scene with Nora walking through the house and entering the room where her grandmother committed suicide many years ago. There's a chair set up as though Nora is contemplating it herself. Suddenly, Eric, Agnes' son, calls for Nora and they have a brief moment together. Nora shoes him to go home, but Eric is reluctant. He can tell something isn't right. Nora reassures him and insists he has to go. So he does. Alone, Nora walks back to the room. She stares at the chair, pensive, deep in thought. Gustav calls cut and we realize this is a scene from his new movie, which Nora is now starring in and Eric also after wrapping up the scene, Nora and Gustav glance at each other across the set and tentatively smile at one another. Perhaps something is healing with this collaboration. Perhaps. The end. Are you just gonna sit there in silence until I start talking? Okay. Yeah, of course. Fair enough, fair enough. um So yeah, it's the end. mean, brilliant ending, for one thing. When that ending starts, you are a little like, what? Why? Like, what are we doing here? Kind of a thing. It does it in such a way that like you. I there this is a very filmic thing that happens often where it's like, you know, plainly, this is a movie shoot and it's going to be revealed to be a movie shoot and. I would say at my age and experience with watching movies these days, I can spot it nine out of 10 times, maybe eight out of 10 times, but I'm gonna give myself a little bit of an ego boost and say nine out of 10 times. It seems to happen all the time. Now it starts and I'm like, oh, come on guys, is a film shoot. It's funny though, twice recently, we did To Be or Not To Be from 1942 and that opening was something I didn't see coming either. And then this one, the closing, I didn't see it coming. It was it was a sudden jump where suddenly you're like, why are we in this scene? Why is it so heavy? Why is Norik doing like you're just sort of like, but because the movie is so weirdly drama free and even the shooting of this scene is so weirdly, the gravitas is all implied by the silences and just because you see what's happening and no one's no one's acting big. No one's making broad statements. It's just happening. And that's where the drama comes from. And so you still don't see it. You almost would expect uh a scene about a film being filmed for a movie. Like suddenly it's going to be a little more elevated because now everyone's acting, right? You kind of a thing. And here they just shoot it like the rest of the movie and it you don't see. I didn't see it coming. You know, I'm to I'm going to read the spoiler alert at the beginning of this synopsis. I'll record a quick little while. Yeah, because I yeah. Yeah. Because I just realized this is this is a pretty big spoiler ending that I'm like, make sure to watch the movie unless you really want to hear about this beforehand. But yeah, that it's a brilliant ending. It ends. It does give this a pretty perfect about uh exit, a perfect bow out. Yeah. Because it's like you see that something is happening. You know, there's no miracles. There's no like everything's fixed. Everyone's happy with each other. But it is that thing where it's like, they're trying in there the ways they know how to the ways that have already been established him through his work, you know, and like trying to get them to like be a part of that work because he's like, I don't know how to communicate with anyone outside of this. This is all I got. This is all I got, you know, so you can be a part of this and we'll probably be pretty close then there's a strong chance that after this movie is done. He still isn't a big part of their lives, just like he was the last time when Agnes was a child actor and then he just like fucked off. um You don't know. But it's still, for the most part, a happy ending as everyone is starting to. And by doing the play to Agnes and Nora, of course, are getting deeper into what happened to the grandmother and getting deeper into their father's life and backstory. So it's like everyone's starting to understand each other just by dint of what by doing this together. It's the only way for that to happen. So, you know, I wanted to wine with a father daughter dynamic, though maybe one, you know, with that functional versus dysfunctional dynamic and a wine that matches this movie's emotional complexity, but lack of gravitas, lack of elevated emotional quality. I needed to match this more grounded, everyday, quiet, gentle approach uh to peering into the depth of difficult interpersonal relationships. So I chose Zuhal Winery's Arani. from Vyotsdzur, Armenia. So arani, that is A-R-E-N-I, but you pronounce it more with kind of that open A sound with that E, so it's arani, is Armenia's flagship red variety. It reflects the Zulalwineries mission to showcase indigenous grapes with clarity, purity, and a deep respect for terroir, according to them, of course. The grapes come from small family-owned vineyards. in the Viatz d'Azur that are 50 to 70 years old. This is a very high elevated vineyard. It's 1400 to 1500 meters above sea level and completely un-grafted vines, which means pre-phylloxera, for those who aren't really wine-educated, phylloxera. It was a root louse, a bit of a pest that we brought over from America. We introduced to Europe, the British introduced it to Europe by trading with us. The ships came over to them, always Brits. Never us, never us. It's always the Brits. They came over to America and accidentally transported that and introduced it to the ecosystem in Europe. there is no, to this day, there is no cure for phylloxera. So it devastated the vineyards in Europe, destroyed about 80 % of the vineyards at the time. This was the 1800s. And um to this day, there's no, we've never discovered a way to kill phylloxera without also killing the vine. So there is no, there is no cure. to the disease. what we did find a solution and the solution was that the reason phylloxera doesn't affect American vines is because they evolved together in North America. And so our vines have natural, they evolved with natural resistance to phylloxera and aren't affected by the pest. So vines are really cool because you can take the roots of, and it's a root lao, so it only really goes after the roots. So we took American roots, took them over to Europe, planted them in the ground. And you can do a thing called grafting where you just jam the top part into the lower part. And the top part is still the European vine and the lower part is the American root stock. And the vines will merge into a new vine together and still more or less grow what they were growing before on the top. um Now, a lot of people swear that it was. different when the roots were pure European, like some people are very purist about it over there. so they're like, un-grafted vines are a bit of a treasure, where it's like, these are the same vines, these are the same root stocks and the same uh variety of vine, like untouched, unblemished, un-grafted from hundreds, thousands of years ago for Europe. So that heritage is unbroken if it's un-grafted. And mostly these are places that are very high up in elevation that phylloxera was not able. to get to. So there are some places. There are some places in Portugal. There are some places in Armenia. um Everywhere you go, there are some very high elevation uh prephylloxera non-grafted European vines that still exist. But they're relatively rare to find. Anyways, these are prephylloxera un-grafted. Arane is often compared to Pinot Noir. And it does share similar like body structure and fundamental flavor profile. You've got the red fruit, herbaceousness, good acidity, noticeable, but not hefty tannins. It's complex. It's layered. It's contemplative, but not harsh and not at all difficult to drink. Now, the winery Zulal was founded by Amy Kushgarian, daughter to Vahey Kushgarian, who spearheaded the modern wine movement in Armenia. Amy grew up in Tuscany. surrounded by her family's wine business. He, Bahay originally was in Tuscany as well and then came back to Armenia and started to spearhead kind of the modern Armenian wine movement. uh She went on to study economic development and social entrepreneurship in college because her interest was bringing Armenia's economy into the modern world. She really wanted like the, she's like, we can be richer and more involved. in kind of the world economy and on the world stage than we currently are. We can have a better life. And she wanted to develop the economy in Armenia from what it used to be. Then her father, Vahe, invited her to work the harvest at his winery, Kush, in 2015. That was his Armenian winery. And she said, quote, I never thought I would follow in my father's footsteps. But when I came for harvest, I think a lot of things hit me at once. I'm a diaspora in Armenian. So there is this broad notion of Armenians having this emotional draw towards rebuilding our nation post-Soviet Union. Secondly, was the potential and the opportunity to be a part of rebuilding a wine industry. And we're rebuilding it. We're not building it from scratch. We have a lot of ancient history. We have history during the Soviet time. So being part of something that was being rebuilt, I think, was really exciting. It was a challenge, unquote. So Amy later founded Zural as her own. winery separate from her father's dedicated to small batch expressions of Armenia's rare and indigenous grape varieties. And she served as Rydles, if I'm pronouncing that winery right, I never know how to pronounce that winery, but Rydles ambassador to Armenia um as well. And she now holds an MBA in wine and spirits from the Burgundy School of Business where she deepened her understanding of regional identity and to war. She has worked with lesser known native grapes such as not gonna pronounce any of these right. Chilar, Tozat. and Geron Demak, or Dmyk, I don't know, exploring their potential, D-M-A-K, exploring their potential while staying rooted in Armenia's heritage. She is featured, by the way, in a cup of salvation, which is SOM4 documentary, a SOM TV documentary, long listed for the Academy Awards, which follows her and her father's efforts to make wine in both Armenia and the first Iranian wine in over 40 years, which... um I announced a little while ago last year I had the chance to get one of the bottles they made about 1200 cases of this one and that's it. And then of course they had to smuggle grapes out of Iran um and now they are and they could do it once they can't do it again. Then the Iranian government caught on to what they did and it's going to be much harder and much more dangerous to do. So they made one wine. that was the one with an indigenous grape that was planted and grown in Iran. And they made it and I got to taste that bottle last year and it was really nice. It was really cool to be a part of that whole thing. But go watch that documentary. It's a really cool story of how they made that wine happen and smuggled the grapes out and whatnot. But she, you know, she was interested in economic development and then she transformed that into the economic development of the wine world in Armenia. So father daughter relationship, Arani. which is complex yet gentle. so easy to drink. It's complex. You can think about it. You can sit there and just like sip it, sip it, sip it and never take your mind off it. But you can also just drink it. It doesn't hit you hard in any way, shape or form. It's a wonderful wine. So Zulal, Z-U-L-A-L, Arani, A-R-E-N-I, there'll be a link down below so you can do a quick AI free Google search to see if you can find it. All right, Dallas, what do you got? Sweet. First, I want to give a shout out to themoviespoiler.com uh who actually supplied uh most of our synopsis today um for this series. um I know. Yeah, no, me too. uh But I really like what they did when I went looking, so I wanted to give a shout out. Anyway. um I wanted a wine that matched this sort of complement at the watchability here of this film, the ease of this film, because it is a very easy watch, even though there's some heavy matter here, it's really easy to just sit and enjoy the show and look at the dark architecture that mythos in the background, and enjoy the sort of moments of sort of subdued levity, I guess is the only way to describe it. But I also wanted something to contrast with this sort of gloomy and austere style. So I had to pull whatever wine I'm choosing and chose had to pull double duty. So it had to be something that was both pleasant and an easy drink, but also something that kind of implored me to continue drinking. uh And maybe with, you know, like I said earlier, I wanted something a little maybe a little brighter, a little colorful, a little more colorful to kind of contrast that just general darkness and doom of this film. So everybody knows, Dave knows I do enjoy the O'Neill and I settled. Yes, I settled on the twenty twenty three K Vintner's Art Den Hode Vionnier. It is a lean sort of light to medium bodied wine that increases that salivary sensation, mouthwatering it. like this film, every frame sort of makes you curious about the next that sort of idea of continuing to watch and continuing to drink. uh You want more. ah It's it's energetic in its own way, kind of spritzy. um There's uh sort of an excitement beneath these top sort of subdued layers. It's similar to this film. ah It's it's a very clean expression of. some otherwise dirty and muddy components. That's not my phrasing, by the way, I stole that from one of the reviews. But I love it. They called it a hoed ah wine. Right. Right. It's also similar in that it is, again, effortlessly watchable. And this drink is this wine is kind of effortlessly drinkable. mean, just glass, kind of after glass after glass. Notes wise, I'm getting some honeysuckle. There's a little apple blossom. Things you would expect. There's that faint peachy thing on the nose, I guess. you know, I would say drink it now and like this film fucking watch it now go watch this film. It is excellent filmmaking, excellent writing, excellent acting, excellent casting, everything is just top notch about this film. uh So the winery cave it nurse is located at the base of the Blue Mountains in Walla Walla Washington. cave it nurse open its doors to the public on December 3 2001. The site was originally homesteaded in 1853 with the adjacent farmhouse built in 1871. Very long lineage here. The winery grounds move through the Titus Creek flowing through the lawn and the old pioneer planted trees. I love that phrase old pioneer planted trees. It is a little slice of heartland Americana as it is called. Now the winemaker His name is Charles Smith. He loves to drink wine. He is the proprietor and winemaker. He comes to Walla Walla after 11 years in Scandinavia. There's a little Scandinavian connection here. Originally, he is from Northern California and has been involved with wine personally and professionally his entire life. I like this wine. You can actually find it At Gelson's, if you have a Gelson's, I do believe K and L uh is uh also sells it and you can find it lots of places. Price point, $25, I think, roughly. um And yeah, it's kind of fantastic, man. Just like this film. Like it makes me want to go and watch the actual trilogy properly. um just to see more of this kind of immersive filmmaking. I know, that's what saying. It makes me want to go back and watch it. Although I will say his earlier films, he does make a point of stating like, you know, he comes from irony and that's more the style of his previous films. And this was the one where he's like, let's just keep this one honest, quote unquote, emotionally rather than mining it for the irony, mining it for the yeah, kind of comparing different emotional because worst person in the world, like I said, like she is a character. Like more it's very European, but at the same time, so, you know, it's not as it's nowhere near as elevated or histrionic as like you'd get from an American movie about such a character. But at the same time, compared to this one, she is she is much more of a character rather than a real life person who just has some eccentricities kind of thing. So this is a very dialed down version of Trier. But it would be interesting for you to go back and see where the like kind of the the bridge from from those to this and see what you think. I will check out the trilogy for sure. Sweet. Yeah. film. Go watch it. All around sentimental value. Right now, I believe in the States. It is streaming on Hulu. So you got to get a Hulu subscription to go get that or rent it from, you know, any specific online rental. You can probably rent it on YouTube, Apple, iTunes or Fandango or so on and so forth. uh Very, very worth it. It's a wonderful movie. should have won probably more than just Best International Feature Film, but I'm glad it at least won that. And all right. Dear listeners, as we sign off today, do you love us? I mean, we love you. Come on. Do you like this whole wine and movie pairing schtick? Well, go follow and subscribe. Make sure you're following and subscribing to us on whatever platform you're listening to this on. And you know, if you have one minute, leave us a rating and review. Three word review. You guys rock. Something like that. You know, I mean, that that's exactly it. God's among men. thanks. That's a s- But leave that rating or review and make sure your followers subscribe to us because that really helps the algorithms show us to more people and it helps them to discover us. ah No one's looking for a one in movie pairing. No one thinks that's a thing. We are the first to really do it. Certainly to do it sincerely and this ongoingly that I've ever seen in my life. So no one's looking for it. But. The algorithm will show it to them the more we get ratings, reviews, and subscribers. So please, really helps us out. We deeply, deeply appreciate it. Even better. Go to Substack. I know, it's a terrible platform, but go to Substack, theentertainmentstudios.com, where we will keep you all up to date on our upcoming live in-person wine and movie events, online events, as well as bonus wine and entertainment pairings, collabs with other wine writers, filmmakers, and wine peeps. And if you ask us nicely, we will even if you ask us nicely on Substack, you know, get it hit us up in the chat, slip into our DMS. It's OK. You love us. We love you. It's all good. It's all good. We will help you with your own wine and movie pairing. Just ask. We love doing this. We're super OK with doing it more. Say what it is you might want to watch. We'll be like, here's some wines. Go check out. you go watch that if you're gonna have like a movie party, a gathering, a get together. Say you just have a wine and you're like what should I watch with this wine? This is what I'm opening tonight. Now what am I gonna watch if you're open to that? You can go you can do this either way right? And many thanks this year to our sponsor, our official sponsor Curated Wine Shop. No idea where to begin finding a wine that pairs with your movie. That's okay besides me in Dallas literally oh besides me in Dallas and Curated Wine Shop. Literally no one does. So you can hit us up or Curated accepts every entertainment inspired challenge. will curate the selection to match your palate. Just tell them what you're trying to pair with, your budget, your preferences, and they will show you the way. Curated is, of course, the boutique wine shop on La Brea Avenue, mid-city Los Angeles, founded and operated by Peeps currently and previously part of the entertainment ecosystem. Johnny, Kelly, Allison, and Mia, they're all fantastic. Go meet them. They carry an ever-changing, wide-ranging selection of small lot artisanal wines from the known and comforting to the completely unique. We're talking reds, whites, rosés, oranges, sparkling, striwines, sweet wines, everything in between. There's no such thing, but everything in between. Go check them out if you're in the LA area. Johnny, by the way, is currently doing design for the Olympics. He's next production center art director. And he's doing it for the Olympics right now on top of running the bloody wine shop. So go, you know, if you're an Olympics fan, go say hi and see if he can help you get some nice tickets or something. He probably can't, but you know, can see what happens. Buddy, buddy up to him. support his wine shop, maybe he'll support you. You never know. You can find them online at curated-wines.com. They do ship. That is curated-wines.com for curated and entertainmentstudios.com for us entertainment bros. Thank you so much for listening. We will be back in one week with another one in entertainment pairing foyo entertainment. But ciao for now. guys. One discussion of thoughts. Dave sneezing. You guys can't hear it, but it's hilarious to watch. He's got one finger up, shaking his head. He's clutching his pearls now. Yeah, I hope you guys watch this. It's hilarious. I am coming down with something so I can tell I can tell I'm sick as a dog. I have a podcast at 9 a.m. tomorrow, too, that I have to guest on. Oh, It's going to suck. Because all I want to do is cough and blow my nose. And of course, I'm trying to talk and like nice, clear and coherent sentences and blah, blah, blah, and have a conversation. And all I to do is drink water and like hack. Anyway. Yes, thoughts. So, no, no. Hold on. Haha, fuck a duck man. I was doing so good until this moment. You were, you were. I loved it, you were.