MACGRUBER (2010) w/ Comedy Writer-Producer Jon Stahl

From regular SNL short sketches to Super Bowl ad to feature film, MACGRUBER is the dumb aka authentically funny parody of MACGYVER that flopped on arrival but quickly accumulated a cult following and increased recognition with home viewings.

Two of those fans are yours truly - having watched MacGruber when Netflix was still shipping phsyical DVDs to my mailbox - and our special guest this episode JON STAHL, writer on the TV show VEEP and Fox's HOUSEBROKEN. 

You can currently find Jon at his Substack: How Not to be a TV Writer

And be sure to watch his YouTube WebSeries: CASEN POINTE: TRUE CRIME DETTECTIVE

Also Jon's 4-Part micro-series UPSTAGE

THE WINES (and Kombucha):

Synergy Trilogy Kombucha

2022 Revelation Vineyards 100% Vidal Blanc

Four buck chuck Pinot

Transcript

0:05

Are you not entertained? Yes sir! We'll have a real... He's Dave and I'm Dallas and this is Ventertainment. We have opinions on just about everything. Sometimes those opinions are spot on. Sometimes they go down easier with a glass of wine. This is entertainment. next. Welcome everybody to Vintertainment. This is of course the podcast where we pair wine with entertainment. It's as simple as that. And today, assisting us in this supposedly simple task is filmmaker, writer and entrepreneur, John Stoth. John is, according to his official bio, a writer and producer operating at the intersection of traditional media and the creator economy. He worked in the writer's room on the final two seasons of HBO's Veep and wrote on Fox's animated sitcom, House Broken. He is the author of How Not to Be a TV Writer, a Substack newsletter discussing creative work and industry change, which you can find at hownot.substack.com. That is hownot.substack.com for How Not to Be a TV Writer. And he is also the creator of the comedy micro series, Case in Point. true crime detective, which premiered on January 20th, 2026 on YouTube. He is also the creative chief creative officer of Point Fake Media, where he focuses on comedy forward storytelling. And he is also you know what? Fuck you, John. That's too many things. That's. Things is three things for bio. It's like after that, you're humble bragging like, come on. But anyway, he is also the CEO of Prologue, a creative development software platform, which was acquired in 2025, which means he's rich AF. no. John, welcome to entertainment. How you doing? And are you ready to talk some wine and McGroober? I so good and I am so ready to talk wine and MacGruber. ah Although I will have a lot more to say about the MacGruber part than the wine part. worries, no worries. That's fair. That's fair. We're here for the wine part and John's going to probably talk about some other kind of beverage because he is living a mostly sober lifestyle these days. But we will get there when we get there. Right, now John, even though we just said you can't do all things, ah we have to add one more piece to your list of current endeavors. You also, on top of everything else, organize the in-person get togethers for Film Stack here in Los Angeles, Hollywood, California. Film Stack, quote unquote, being the film side of Substack. So anyone out there who writes about film or. works in film in any way and is in the LA area and wants to be a part of this, make sure to reach out and let us know. Now Filmstack is a part of the non D NONDE or non-dependent film movement on substack coined and spearheaded by legendary super producer Ted Hope. Some say that non D is a whole new thing. Others say it's a necessary rebranding and reinvigoration of the term. Indie. But tell our listeners, if you will, John, in your own words, how you would define non-D and why it's fucking important. Yes, all of the things. The answer is yes. How I would define Nandi. So this kind of came from the idea that independent film kind of started independent and started in this place of of genuine genuinely being independent of the studio system before eventually being co-opted into a form of the studio system. Another arm. know, a 24 is not exactly a. mom and studio. They're a studio now. And so like the the nomenclature I get it the nomenclature is not accurate anymore. It's not independent. You can't you're not making an independent movie when you have a $10 million budget and a major star attack. Say that one more time. that one more time. But not making if you have $10 million production budget and a major star attached to your feature film, you are not making an independent movie, you are making a studio picture. non D has arrived to answer that conundrum. Right? Non D is genuine genuinely uh means that the the entities making this thing are not dependent on the resources of a major studio or other entity, right, that has a lot of resources at their disposal to just dole out. So I think it's a good thing. I think independent film is like, mean, you keep with someone. Someone says the words independent film, they could mean one of like 17 different things. And so when you say Nandi, you're actually like it actually does kind of categorize those two very narrow uh narrow kind of function, which is like, uh it's self financed, or they they got financing from friends and family, uh or they managed to go out and raise like a million bucks through like various places, but they didn't have the support of an existing entertainment entity to back them. Right, right. Entertainment entities that are, you know, established, we can call them the establishment. If you have that backing, you're not an you're not an independent filmmaker, you are a filmmaker in the system. You heard it here first, guys. ah When did the Nandi movement pop up on your radar ah for the people there? around the same time that filmstack did, which, which is to say, like spring of 2025. So I started writing on sub stack, the newsletter in like December of 2024 into January of 2025. And by like February or March, uh I'd already like, I'd already been like connecting with other people in the filmstack ecosystem. And by June, I organized the first in person meetup for film stack in LA. And then shortly thereafter, it spread to New York and Portland and London and okay. Yeah, It's a movement. Yeah, it's a movement. And you know, it's, I'm not gonna say that it's like, entirely, uh you know, out of out of, you know, a charitable, right, you know, place. It's not it's not. I'm not I'm doing it because it benefits me, right? It benefits me to have this community around me. It benefits me to have these connections, this network that I've made. And I'm gonna keep doing it because I'm gonna be perfectly honest, it's not that hard. You just make the invite again and people just show up. You just do it and one thing I do have to do is actually like. In fact, I'm gonna remind myself this is like working in real time. I gotta remind myself, because otherwise I'm gonna forget. I was like, reach out to the bar to reserve tables. I gotta do that. That's one thing I gotta do. Two weekends from now and the last time they didn't have, and it was fine, know, nothing was disastrous. And you know what? I would be willing to bet this is like not even. this is gonna get cut, I'm sure. I'd be willing to bet that they would give discounts to people who show up. Just like, whatever, 20 % discount, offer drinks, it's fine. You know? All right. Well, on that note, Mr. John, as already mentioned, you recently released your latest work of comedy genius case in point true crime detective episode one back in January and episode two should have gone live the week before this episode drops. And uh Dallas and myself had the pleasure of helping out on the set for episode two. That's a humble brag, dear listeners. Right. That's right. We got to slave away for 12 hour days on a hot set. Actually, maybe not much of a humble brag, but We did get to work on episode two, so we just get to say that. So, you know, what was the inspiration for Case and Point? Give the pitch to our listeners and what are your hopes for the series? This is a series that was a decade in the making, ah believe it or not. I first had the idea back in 2015 when I was working on a Nickelodeon show, I came up with the name and the ridiculousness of the character. Oh yeah. Case in point, true crime detective. And it was like this monster. I'm glad that we're talking about this and we're talking about MacGruber because It's that sort of like, you pick a character who's just a complete asshole monster and make them entirely certain of themselves and it's just, it's fuel for comedy and that's what it is. And so I knew that was kind of the ballpark of the character back in 2015 and then it wasn't until last year, 2025, I had started the Substack. It was growing. I was at like 500 subscribers, something like that. And someone reached out to me. They DMed me on Substack. and said, hey, want to get a grab a drink. I really like what you're writing. He really speaks to me, blah, blah. We meet. His name is Bowen. ah And we grab drinks. We chat. He tells me a little bit about what he's working on. He sends me a web series that he directed. I watched the web series. It's pretty good. ah From there, we got lunch. And I pitched him on this idea. And just the premise, the rough premise, and we kind of just workshopped it. We workshopped it on a walk. I was walking my dogs. We had just gotten lunch. We walking around the neighborhood on the West side. And we kind of just like workshopped it and decided, yeah, let's go and like figure this out. Let's figure out who this character is. Let's figure out uh what the story is. Let's figure out what the pilot looks like. yeah, we wrote a 10 page episode and we're just like, let's just shoot it in August. Let's like pick a date in August and just shoot it. And so we picked a date. We stuck to it. We booked a location within a few days and we're like, going back now, we already spent the money. And we shot it and I brought my friend on board, a very good friend of mine who introduced me to my wife, his name is Danny, terrifically talented DP. He brought a few people in. He brought in a camera operator and a gaffer and a key grip and they all volunteered their time on this ridiculous project. it was it ended up awesome. It ended up better than any of us could have ever hoped. And so once we actually had it in the can, Danny found this guy on um on some website, I want to say, um who his name is Matt Shaw. He is an ASC editor who won an Emmy back in June, by the way. um And June was a June? No, it was later than that. ah It whenever the Emmys were back in the back in the fall, he won an Emmy. Right. And then he just recently won an Eddie, which is the A.S. No, not not a C. A.B. Ace American. Yeah. The editors. Whatever. He wanted Eddie. uh I like a month ago uh and he's Conan O'Brien's editor. And so he knows comedy and he wanted to start working on more narrative stuff. We pitched him the idea. We sent him the dailies and he was like, let's do it. Let's work on this. And since then, Matt has been like our our go-to guy, go-to editor, and he's like helped really bring so much of this stuff together. Yeah, after we shot the first episode and got the cut back for the first one, we were like, OK, this is good. Let's get started on number two. So we wrote number two. We set a date. We shot it. We're releasing it as of the time of this recording, not the release. Four days from now on the 10th. It's uh slated to release. Awesome. are you, I think you mentioned, I can't remember if it was on Substack or just in our email chain back and forth, but you mentioned you're about to go on production. that episode three that you're about to jump right into as well? Okay. so I recently at Slamdance back in January, I announced my intention to produce or release 10 non-D series into the world. And, you know, between Case and Point and this other thing that we shot in December, which is like four episodes of a micro series. I would call by the way would call I would reclassify case in point as a web series because okay minutes for Episode one nine plus for Episode two. It's a web series not really a micro series micro series I would define as fitting within the confines of one of those like vertical like YouTube shorts as a three minute limit. So if it's under that's I'm gonna call it a micro series. So we shot this micro series at a theater about a theater director and her assistant back in December. I literally just finished up the post on that like an hour ago. And so we're going to start releasing those one by one within another week. And then a month and a half ago, month and a month and a half ago, we shot another micro series. That's an improv forward micro series with uh Matt Walsh, the UCB founder of UCB. And he played Michael Klintock in Veep, starring as death. He plays death, works in this bureaucratic office. People come in, they're going through near the death experiences. He has to decide to send them on or send them back. And so we shot that. We shot 36 episodes of that. We're going through the post right now. Matt has so much stuff to get through. So I'm trying to like as much as I can be as AE and help, you know, pull, like get string outs ready, get um rough cuts ready, et cetera. Got that. Got another thing that I'm shooting in Austin in a month and a quarter and five weeks. And that is a branded micro series, two to three minute episodes, uh six episodes total. It is a coffee roaster. A coffee roaster uh called Mernin based out of Austin, Texas. Very, very tiny. They don't have a ton of money. So it's like shoestring budget, like very running gun. We're going to figure it out on the ground. uh But I don't know. think it's I think it's it's it's I'm excited about it. It's a very ambitious project. um It is I think it's pretty funny. I'm we've found some good talent, some like good improv people in the Austin area. So I'm in pre pro on that. And then I'm developing just like way too many other projects. Well, if you had all these essentially ready to go in like the last year, my God. um And just to talk a little bit about because one of your things that you talk about a lot on Substack is or on your film stack on how to not to be a TV writer is this idea of branded entertainment rather than branded advertisements. Yeah. Right. And so the Austin Coffee House is sort of your first big foray into into attempt into trying that model out. Yes. Exactly. It's my first like test case in that for at least the scripted version of of that. ah In the meantime, I'm also working with a um Japanese hair care founder who recently moved to the US within the last year, moved to L.A. And he's looking to kind of like he sold like a million units of product in Japan. really impressive. And he came to the US and young guy, really young guy came to the US he's looking to get a foothold in the US and he's looking to do a branded series in the US and you know, a comma, it's not going to be a comedy web series because it's like it just doesn't fit the brand. doesn't fit what like the types of people that he's going after. And so I'm developing and producing a like branded doc series with just doing profiles on like stylists and salon owners in the LA area. And so right now is the casting phase and I'm reaching out to all of these salon places and trying to get people to say, come on over, we'll interview you for an hour and get some B-roll of you doing your thing at your salon. that's our... The possibilities are endless. Those are the big ones. And the other ones are very early stage. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And give us before this drops next week beyond case in point, if that other one is also if you have like a link to it or something or some place where people can find it, give us all the links so we can make sure they're down in the description of the episode. Absolutely give you like I literally just created the Instagram page for one that we shot in December. So yeah. Cool. All right. Beautiful. And the last thing, because we missed this a little bit, what is the actual pitch for case in point? Like, what is it? So, okay, yes, case in point is the story about a blowhard detective with zero credentials uh and zero invitation who waltzes on to crime scenes and like inserts himself and tries to solve the crime despite the insistence of, you know, the actual detective. Yeah, everyone basically. And so, and so while he's doing this, he's live streaming the entire time with via his assistant and it's It's just it's a chaotic mess. And it's what happens when, you know, the true crime narrative supersedes, you know, any attempt at justice or like, bottom any kind of crime, right? So because he's he's hawking, you know, products in the middle of the in the middle, when he's in the middle of his grand, you know, theory that he's that he's delivering to these folks. And like pre-editing, he's trying to have moments of the drama that his viewers need rather than letting it organically play out or anything like that. Yeah. uh At some point, uh John, you should definitely contact uh the guy from Dateline's uh True Crime series. That guy. That'd be a great cameo. So if you're out there listening or anyone connected to that guy whose name escapes me at the moment. There's nothing I want more than to just keep going with this series because it's so much fun to make and the character is so much fun to uh explore and he's so chaotic and such an asshole in the best way. actor you found for him, I mean, you saw perfect. The actor, amazing performer named Anthony Guarino uh from Groundlings. so like brilliant, brilliant comedy instincts and a great look. And he just, he just knocks it out of the park. oh And 15 years ago when you first had this idea that was kind of pre social media so it got to evolve. I feel like it's hitting at the at the better moment where this just plays into that whole live streaming. I want to be an online personality that's why I'm doing this rather than it'd be a bit more random to just have someone want to be a true crime detective kind of in the real world. 100%. 10 years ago in 2025. that would be no, not the same. 2015. Sorry 10 years ago. I know. Yeah, I was just about to make that little correction. Okay, john. uh That's enough about you. We get it. You're awesome. You're amazing. You do everything, blah, blah, blah. But we here at entertainment like to give the listeners what they want. And what they want to know is what movie did you choose to talk about today? And why? Okay, so the movie that I chose to talk about is a movie called MacGruber based on the character of the same name from the SNL sketches of whatever 10, 15 years ago. And the reason I chose that is because it is exemplary of the type of comedy that doesn't really get made anymore. But I think there is a strong appetite for I think people really want hard comedy. I think people really want laugh out loud comedy. I think people I get the appetite for like a grounded social realism. You know, I get it. I get relating to someone on the screen and saying like, I, I, I'm with that person because they're like, enough of that Jesus Christ I get But also enough of that. There's room for both. What I'm saying is there's room for both. We to either or Yeah, Kim, it's not just either or. MacGruber is truly absurdist, pulls no punches with the comedy, takes really big swings, does not respect any kind of realism. And they really go for the joke. They're not afraid to abandon, you know, abandon any kind of like character development for a really, really good joke. In addition, what this movie does really, really well, what it does really well is it uses the cinematography, the lighting, the performances, the tropes, the characters, all of these elements from a traditional classic like 80s or 90s action movie. And, you know, uses those to the fullest effect to get the laughs that it's going for because these jokes would not play quite so well. They weren't taken dead seriously and really, cinematic, dramatic lighting, right, you know, cinematic performances and like really actors really going for it ah and using the camera, the pushes and the camera techniques and the cinematography that really like cemented movies of that era. And I think they, you know, they use that to great effect. Yeah, the first time I ever watched MacGruber, which was many years back. And, you know, I saw it was called MacGruber and I'm like, it's a comedy. then the first the opening scene starts and I'm like, is this not a comedy? Like, there's that moment where I was like, wait, is this a real action movie? I think I am right. Right. And so it took and then a couple of minutes later, I'm like, oh, no. OK, yes, this is a comedy. Cool. I like because that's what I was in the mood for. So I'm like, no, do I need to switch the movie tonight? What's that? happening. And the great thing about the great thing about how they do this is have you ever seen hot fuzz hot fuzz was my backup. So you can tell you can tell that uh blanking on the name director of hot fuzz. Simon Pegg and Edward Edward. uh Right. right. So Edgar Wright ah loves action movies and loves, you know, the police drama thing. ah uses the techniques of those of those types of movies in that movie. And it's the same thing with Yoruba to cone. You can tell he loved he grew up he was raised on that stuff. He loved those action movies. He loved the conventions. He loved the techniques. He loved the close up fist bump and like the you know, from was it from Predator was it with Arnold and Carl Weathers and Arnold and so like obviously pulling so much from those types of movie which they love and that's the thing about great satire is that they're not making fun of the box they honor the form they use the form to fuel what they're doing and I think it's a great thing. So John, this makes me want to ask you this question. The single greatest series, I think, comedy series ever in the history of television. ah I would normally say Golden Girls, but that's conversation for another time. Police Squad, are you familiar with Police Squad? My God, if you enjoy this formula, this it is when I say bar none. It has an almost uh live theater feel about it. The same thing for former Gruber in that, know, the character, the characters are taking it so seriously. The actors take it seriously, but it's delivered on this sort of skeleton of ridiculousness, right? And uh it just it. it just rings so true and so funny and the irony is just so acute and police squad by far if you enjoy this kind of thing I'm gonna say this to everyone with the sound of my voice go watch Leslie Nielsen squad dear it is the greatest thing ever but you also see but was that naked gun like came from police squad like was basically yeah. Yeah, police squad only had I think one one and a half maybe two seasons because it was so laborious to make because it was just it was a massive undertaking because they were you know, they had to remember it memorizes so much of a dialogue and just the interplay and the back and forth. It was just fantastic. But the other two was taken so seriously. And it was just so fucking funny. So if you haven't seen it, go see it. will pick that. Awesome. Yeah. And Brooklyn Nine Nine. Have you seen that Dallas? That's another one. I haven't seen squad either. Yeah. It's more as silly as it is. It's a bit more grounded. Yeah. Captain Ray Holt. Yeah. All right. um Yeah. one of the funniest characters. ah There's one, it's really funny. There's like a technique that you see in great comedy that people execute. If executed well, it is truly the funniest thing ever. It's silly things being taken very seriously and serious things treated very cavalierly or like with like abandon, right? And that's like, that's just. One of the recipes. Yeah, that's the And then Pocon 9-9 did it and I'm sure police squad did it and it's the magic sauce. It is. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree with that. All right. Well, before we get to the movie proper and dig a little deeper into McGruber, it's time for our one trivia question of the week. Let's see if either of you can get this one. You have a 25 % chance even if you I have no idea what the answer might be. It's a multiple choice. It's not too hard. But since John here lives a mostly sober lifestyle, here's a question pertaining to America's once obsession with sobriety prohibition. Oh, nice. The fun years, the fun times. So the prohibition era accidentally propelled which of the following into existence? Was it A. Manischewitz wine? B. Cocktail parties? C, medicinal alcoholic tinctures or D, root beer as we know it today. That is once again for our listeners and for John and Dallas who are listening and are going to attempt to answer this. go ahead. That's really good. Keep going. Okay, okay. Which prohibition era accidentally propelled which of the following into existence? A. Manischewitz wine. B. Cocktail parties. C. Medicinal alcoholic tinctures or D. Root beer as we know it today. John, I'm gonna let you go first. Work through it. Work through it here. I want, I really want to say, um I want it to be Manischewitz, but I don't think it is Manischewitz. I'm gonna guess root beer. I'm gonna guess root beer because Manischewitz is just such, I mean, it's been around forever, I think, and it's such bad, bad wine. It's just the worst. And, you know, happy Passover to everyone, all of my kin. I guess we won't be getting that Manischewitz sponsorship anytime soon. And by the way, know if you've had kosher wine before in general. it's yeah, it's not great. My mom always gets it for the for the holidays and and she's and I I wouldn't I would never drink it. I'm a little bit with you on that, I actually love many shivets. Oh, actually do. Boy. Well, yeah, if you treat it like grapefruit. Yeah. It's like the way that Costco pizza is not really pizza. It's great. call it pizza product and then you enjoy it. right. It's not real cheese, but it melts and and uh perfect. Let's do it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Dallas any different answer. uh I think root beer has always been around in some form. um But I do know that prohibition increased the sale of root beers and ginger beers. uh Medicinal alcohol tinctures, medicinal alcohol tinctures, I would say those got a boost from prohibition as well. Cocktail parties definitely historically got a boost from prohibition. Manischewitz wine, I think Manischewitz wine. ritual lines have always been a thing, of course, but I don't believe menacevitz was a proper thing until prohibition. So there's a part of me that wants to say all of the above, but that's not an option. So I'm going to go with I'm gonna go with menacevitz. All right, Dallas says Manashevitz, John says root beer. Neither is correct. It is in fact cocktail parties that prohibition spurred into existence. Now, John, you were a little bit on the right track with Manashevitz not being very good because no alcohol during prohibition was good. was all rock gut, homemade, disgusting. people. people started to blend it with shit because it was the only way to make it drinkable. And it turned cocktails into a thing in America for essentially really the first time we were nothing. Europe was wine and beer. Like cocktails weren't much. They were a thing, but not like a thing. Yeah. And prohibition in the States cocktail parties began to be like dinner parties with cocktails. And you'd always blend it with stuff because the only way to drink the shit that was actually available. um And sometimes then the dinners went away and it was just cocktail and they were just drinking. and it became the thing. Here are Manischewitz wine actually was post prohibition. So it was the 19 late 1930s. The wine of Manischewitz came into existence. Manischewitz existed as a brand, but not the wine medicinal alcohol tincture has been around for hundreds, if not thousands of years. So didn't really spur it into existence per se. And root beer, as we know it today, did not start until the 60s. because it was mostly sarsaparilla. uh And then in the 60s, they outlawed actual sarsaparilla because it had a chemical product in it. I'm forgetting the name of it, but it was carcinogenic. And so they're like, he can't use real sarsaparilla anymore. And now everything's an extract that they use to make root beer. And the proper, it's kind of like how Coke used to be an actual medicinal thing. And then they're like, well, no, now we got to make it safe and like childproof. And so that didn't start until the 60s. So that is the answers to our wine trivia question of the week. Good job though, guys. And everyone got to learn a little something. That's what we're here for. that. I like that. SICKY SITUATION genius, on that note, let's get started by giving our listeners a touch of history and context on Mcgruber. Most of this information I'm about to say comes from the Vanity Fair article and oral history of Mcgruber by Donald Levinson from May 21, 2020. So according to creator, Jorma, Jorma to cone. Am I pronouncing that right? Yerma, I think it's just Yerma- Yerma- Yoruma. I heard you say it earlier and I'm like, I got to remember that. then I forget it. well. um Yoruma to Cone. So according to creator Yoruma to Cone, McGruber was originally conceived to be the actual stepbrother of MacGyver. He would defuse bombs and get into sticky situations. But when defusing those bombs, he would only use disgusting items such as pubic hair and pieces of dog shit. And can I just say This puts into my mind the Gene Wilder's directorial debut from 1975, Sherlock Holmes's Smarter Brother, where Wilder played the younger brother of Sherlock who wants to prove he was just as smart as, but he's total dumbass. um So much so that Sherlock has to solve all the mysteries from the sidelines, spoon feeding his brother all the information and even getting him out of most of every jam. Have you ever seen that, John? not I am that's so good. I want to I I want to see that. yes, yes. OK, and to our listeners out there, I have no idea if that movie was any inspiration of MacGruber. I don't think so. None of the creators ever mentioned it. But yeah, I want to give that a shout out. And I love that. I grew up on that movie. So that's one of my all time favorites. Anywho, about MacGruber, Takone said, it got a groan from everyone and rightfully so. But the idea stuck with me. Seth Meyers, who became an executive producer on the film, said, It struck me as a stupid one note, one joke idea, but I will fully admit to being wrong. Tacon kept pitching the idea to Will Forte, who we often wrote with, but Forte said no for over a month before saying sure, just to get to cone to shut the fuck up about it. Tacon said the stupider the idea, the faster you need to tell it. So they put together three short sketches instead of one longer sketch. a 90 second, a 60 second and a 30. Will Forte still wasn't convinced, but said he at least wasn't embarrassed to hear it at the table read. So SNL creator, uh do you pronounce this Lorne Michaels or Lorne, Lorne A. Lorne. Lorne. So uh SNL creator Lorne Michaels, though, he thought the shorts were authentically funny, even though he wasn't a MacGyver fan at all. The first short sketch aired in 2007. It's almost 20 years ago. My God. Yeah. And set the template for future sketches. An abandoned factory control room, the only means of escape locked. A bomb set to go off in 20 seconds. While Jeremy Piven's Jojo assesses the situation, Maya Rudolph's Casey counts down the seconds. MacGruber calls for a paperclip, twine, a gum wrapper and a dog turd that Jojo is below to pick up. Orte thought MacGruber. Oh, yeah. the way, idea that they did a 90 second, a 60 second and 30 second. Can we talk about a micro drama here? micro action? Micro action series, but go on Dave pick back up. Forte thought that MacGruber would never be heard from again. They did the sketch. They did their three short sketches and he's like, uh-huh, great. But a few weeks later, Lauren specifically asked them if they wanted to do another. And MacGruber then became a recurring character on SNL from 2007 to 2009. And then came the Superbowl commercial. Pepsi was rebranding. They planned a big campaign and approached Lauren Michaels for an SNL related idea. He said, McGruber is popular. It will be explosive on the Super Bowl. Pepsi was not enthusiastic. But Seth Meyers added, this is really there's a really interesting thing Lauren does, which is he doesn't really take no for an answer. He just runs out the clock until all of a sudden there's a McGruber Pepsi Super Bowl commercial. The ad was successful enough to talk about bringing McGruber into a new medium. Wow. Seth Meyers added. The longer McGrouber went on, the bigger a fan learn became of it. And the people, and then people who were bad with money thought it was a good idea too and decided to make a movie. Ultimately, that's how the most interesting things in Hollywood get made. Tucker Tuley, president of production at Relativity Media. Anyone remember Relativity Media? He said, quote, the Pepsi commercial got a lot of attention. It certainly helped launch a conversation about a movie. The knee-jerk reaction on something like this is simultaneously yes and no. Skits are hard to translate into a full-length feature, but there's also a built-in audience behind it. And that's ultimately what we set out to do with McGroober, harness that in the right direction. They brought on Kristen Wiig's Vicki St. Elmo, who had become McGroober's SNL foil after Maya Rudolph left the show in 2007. The call went out then for dramatic actors who could convey gravitas while being funny. People like Val Kilmer, who would play the villain Dieter von Künth. Ryan Felipe, who would play heroic MacGruber comrade Lieutenant Dixon Piper. And Powers Booth uh as MacGruber's mentor, Colonel Jim Faith. MacGruber was filmed in Albuquerque, New Mexico in 2009. The movie's $10 million budget required a fleet shooting schedule and a creative approach to special effects and explosions. Tacon said, it's a sleight of hand action movie. There's not that much action actually in it. There are explosions and gunfire, but there's very little actual action. Our visual effects budget was under $200,000. You can't do anything for that. Lauren Michaels said, uh Relativity media was going through its own financial issues. This is where everyone can remember Relativity from this time. But Tucker Tule said if we could make it for that money, they'd leave us completely alone. And they did. Forte said they made it look like a $50 million movie. Looking back on it now, the scenes are so much more McGroobery than they would ever have been had we had the actual money to make it like we wanted to. Like the one where I rip out this guy's throat and announce over the loudspeaker that I'm in the control room. They send a bunch of guards and find this guy taped up so it looks like he's flipping them off. When they walk in, it triggers this dixie cup of water to fall and pour on them. It was so dumb, but it felt so right. That would never have happened if we weren't forced to scale. Yes, 100%. Oh my God. Yes. Just to go back to that whole like limitations often make some of the best constraints. committee. mother of invention. So Exactly. So, MacGruber would be the first film based on an SNL character since The Ladies Man in 2000. And remember, this is 2010, so almost 10 years later. Test screenings were promising, and a screening at South by Southwest with cast and crew in attendance was a sensation. Felipe said, I've been to quite a few festival screenings, and this one was just raucous. They laughed at everything and cheered. was like, my God, we've just made this epic comedy, which was everybody's dream. I thought for sure, even if it didn't open well based on this reaction, the word of mouth would surely help it find its audience. It was the perfect crowd and it really set us up for a fall. But that said, Forte said, this is a fucked up movie made by a bunch of weirdos. I'm not expecting the New York Times to give it a good review. And he was right. On May 21st, 2010, New York Times critic A.O. Scott exoriated the film in his review, opening it with a plaintive question. Why does this exist? Shrek Forever After released the same weekend, destroyed McGruber at the box office. McGruber was pulled from theaters just three weeks later. Tully mentioned. I was super depressed when it didn't do well because I loved the team and the movie. Tracking had indicated it would have a better opening than we actually did. The numbers were really encouraging in the first half of the day. And then it just literally fell off a cliff. All of a sudden, no one came. What happened was that MacGruber fans came out early and we were just unable to convert anyone else. Lauren Michaels is on record as saying, I had the same experience with Tommy Boy in the sense that I'm really proud of that movie, but the critics savaged it. And yet it always played really well. And 25 years later, it's still there. There's a bunch of those kinds of movies and the critics will never embrace because they use another kind of standard. And anything that looks dumb will be reviewed as dumb. But dumb is a very important part of American culture and comedy. And what people say is dumb is often a code word for comedy. In the years following the film's release, however, T. McGroover started to realize the film had drawn a cult audience, particularly in 2012, when according to Tacon, late night with Jimmy Fallon, producer Michael Shoemaker, advised him to watch a Fallon interview with Anne Hathaway during an appearance to promote The Dark Knight Rises. Hathaway explained that she had initially been intimidated by that film's director, Christopher Nolan, until she realized that she could tell he was in a good mood when he started quoting McGroover. Ha! uh There was a running joke by the creators that when they made the sequel, would say directed by Christopher Nolan with an asterisk. Then at the end, another asterisk of who actually directed the sequel. Seth Meyers wraps up the history with a perfect summation. You know who likes MacGruber? Everyone who's seen MacGruber. Yes, that is yes. And with that, will say for me personally, when I first saw this film, which probably was like in that 2012, like it was on stream. It was either in streaming or this was such early days. It might have been when Netflix was sending DVDs through the mail. I think might have been more probable. um But it was one of those that I was like, I've heard nothing but bad things about this movie, right? It got savaged by critics. It didn't do well with box office. Word of mouth, I did not have a cinephile word of mouth saying it was better yet. uh But it was just one of those films where I was like, I don't know, I just want a dumb comedy. Let's just, let's bring this in. And I remember watching this film and just being like, how is no one talking about this? This is amazing. This is so well done. It just, it fires on every cylinder. It's amazing. So with that said, let's start doing what we do here on entertainment. We're going to start breaking this movie down act by act. ah A brief synopsis of each act, then discuss our thoughts of that segment of the movie, as well as our wine pairing or other beverage thoughts. ah and how or if they evolved over the course of the movie. Dallas, how about you kick us off with Act 1? Of course, of course. Good luck with that mountain range name. In eastern Siberia's Zhukzhor, by the way, mountains, Dider von Kunt played by Val Kilmer and his men take control of a nuclear X-5 warhead from the Russian army after killing all the soldiers escorting the missile during a routine transfer in Ecuador. Colonel Jim Faith, played by Powers Booth, and Lieutenant Dixon Piper, great name by the way, played by Ryan Philippi, are searching for former Gringoray Navy Seal and Army Ranger MacGruber, played by Will Forte. MacGruber has served, get this, six tours in Desert Storm, four in Bosnia, three each in Angola, Somalia, Mozambique, Nicaragua, and Sierra Leone. He is the recipient of 16. Purple Hearts, three Congressional Medals of Honor, seven Presidential Medals of Honor of bravery, and so on. The list goes on and on and I think he was the starting tight end for There's a starting tight end for that. most important part. The important part. ah They find him. The thing that. It's it's it's the American football, baby. They find him, of course, meditating in a chapel and ask him to retrieve the warhead, which they say has been moved to US soil. He refuses. That night, Marbera dreams of cum filling. Taking that again, Dave. Cut there. That night, McGruber dreams of killing his fiance, Casey Fitzpatrick, played by Maya Rudolph at their wedding, an event that actually occurred in his past. So he accepts the mission. McGruber has the reputation of being very effective, but also causing high collateral damage during his missions. After a heated conversation with Faith and Piper at the Pentagon, McGruber creates a list and travels to the U.S. to form his team to pursue Cunt. Faith wanted Piper to be MacGruber's second-in-command, but MacGruber denies him. MacGruber considers Piper to be a pretty boy rookie with no combat experience, recruiting all but his longtime friend Vicki St. Elmo, played by great Kristen Wiig, one of the greatest actors to ever come out of SNL. She declines, though, as she has a new life of writing and singing songs now. MacGruber meets Faith and Piper on the tarmac. while his team is in the van with his homemade C4 explosives, hand packed into the van by MacGruber himself. But the van suddenly explodes, killing his entire team. Faith takes MacGruber off the case. MacGruber falls on his knees and begs Faith and Piper not to kick him off. He'd happily suck their dicks or let them fuck him whatever they want. It's a new low point for McGrubber or is it I get the feeling that is generally the response to a fuck up Not the only, just the latest. I'm pretty sure that's just that in the pocket in the chamber always Piper relents and agrees to form a new team and then Vicky arrives at the Pentagon to join them and the team is complete Apparently it takes precisely three to be called a team. What do you John? What do you thoughts here John? What are you thinking after? uh ah There are so many great physical comedy bits that just don't work as well in like a summary of the excellent thing. And that includes two or even like three moments where Will Forte as MacGruber lets out this like animalistic scream to indicate that he is like he is like tormented by his past. And it's just this wild eyed madness coming from Will Forte. And that is to me like the first time that he screams like it's raining and he screams to the heavens like. That's when I was like, okay, I'm in. I'm into this movie. This movie is my movie. I want the rest of this movie right now. And it just builds and builds and builds. It's such a great start to a movie and they pull no punches from the onset. And I think for me, it was when the van explodes. That was great. I was like, holy shit that I not see that coming because it is kind of playing it as a true blue action movie with humorous bits and moments. But that was a moment when it's just like, now we're fucking with you, you know, kind of a bit where it's just sort of like, no, they're gone. They're dead. Now it's just this trio and we're just going to and I'm like, OK. That was genius. I did not see them taking it that far. And then of course you have the like, I'll fuck you, I'll suck your dick, don't take me off the team. And I'm just like, it's never, the dial never goes down really after that. It goes up. Go ahead, go ahead, John. the repetition of the jokes too, is part of the genius of it where he appeals to Piper and tells him, I will suck your dick. Just pointed something in the room and I'll fuck it for you. Just tell me what you want me to fuck. And then later when the Colonel tells him that he's off the case, he turns to him in this dramatic moment of pure drama, turns to the Colonel and he just says, will suck your dick. I will let you fuck. do the same Joe honestly, it hard since you that up. to the SNL culture because one of the big things when you hear the former writers, head writers of SNL, one of the things they say is the most important thing for comedy in that format is repetition during the sketch at some point. it's kind of really good to master stroke in that sense. Well, on that on that powers booth moment, I did want to mention that from that Vanity Fair article again, there is this moment where they mentioned that, you know, to cone did such an amazing job of directing it. I remember powers approaching him. I think it was a scene where I asked him not to take me off the case and I tell him I will suck your dick. I will let you fuck me. He was wondering what reaction he was supposed to have. So he was like he went to Tocco and said when he offers to fillet me, how do I take that? And without missing a beat, I said. this is real. This is heartbreaking. You're his mentor. This is seeing him at his lowest point. The problem with a lot of broad comedy that they geniusly avoid is that the comedy knows it's a comedy and they they know how silly it is and they just like they lean into the silly this movie is the opposite this the silly thing seriously as you take everything serious. This is real life. This is real life for the characters. You know, I saw the other the alternative to this to watching. This was Facum Hall, right? Yes. And I really respected what Facum Hall did. It's kind of like a reinvigoration of the kind of like whatever goofball comedies of the 90s. Yeah. Sort of like Naked Gun. what they did was they they they treated a lot of silly things in a silly way and almost a silly way. It's like they didn't take it far enough. Like and when you're dealing with life and death and like your entire team dying and there's a nuclear warhead and like real like I mean, yeah, they're they're kind of whatever stakes, but they're stakes. And and the answer to that to a problem in that world is I will suck your dick. Yeah. And they with with the utmost seriousness, they earn it, they earn it so well. And they really lean into that. By the way, this easily is one of the greatest and most efficient timewise green time wise team assembly montage in the assembly meeting all the people all of the team members the guy with the fits that was like like like twice the size of his just enormous. it's brilliant. looked like every team assembly moment you'd ever seen in a Schwarzenegger or a Stallone film wrapped up into one. was beautiful. It's Indeed. All right. Act two, Dave. got. All right, so Dallas, Sydney, no, no, wine thoughts, wine thoughts. What are your wine thoughts after the end of Act 1? Honestly, this is pleasant. It's fun. It's doesn't require a whole lot of thinking. You just sit back and enjoy. It's you I'm looking for a porch sipper. Maybe I'm looking for something that I'm just gonna, you know, crack open and chuckle with until I reach that point where I'm ready to go to bed. And this film does that every time I probably want something that is easy to drink that I can probably just open a glass at any point of the day. any situation and enjoy it. yeah, how about you? This movie does not challenge you. I think having a wine that doesn't challenge you is very well suited. unless your sensibilities are frail, then it will challenge you every step of the way. But outside of that, outside of that, if you have delicate sensibilities, it's like, well, it's blowing past that pretty fast. But, you know, um but yeah, I think this was to John's point about how this was a it took the superficial qualities of a True Blue action movie, but took them very seriously. Like, no, no, no, this is going to look there's a moment again in that Vanity Fair article. We're talking to the cinematographer and he's like, and he went to the director was basically like, You want this to look like diehard, right? And he's like, oh yeah, 100%. Make it look like diehard. And then from there, the comedy will take care of itself. Like we'll know what to do there. But your job is to make it look like a thing diehard. And it is, it does. So there's an element of seriousness to it, but it is just a blast. It is just so much fun to watch. So my thought was something like, can I, is there a fun version of a serious wine? Like what is that? What does that look like? Something where it is going to be more of a porch zip or more where it's like, you don't have to think about this, but there's that element or at least theoretically, you know, if someone told you it was a blankety blank, you'd be like, that's serious. And you're like, no, not this one. Don't worry about it. Just drink it. I didn't know what that was, but that's where my head was. I think on this one, John, I know it's not something you normally do, but did you do you have it? Did you have any thoughts on your pairing ah just with how this movie starts? uh With how this movie starts, I mean, this movie. OK, the first act of the movie. Let me try and let me try and like pattern match here. The first act, the first act of the movie is the introduction to this character introduction to the real stakes of this character. You immediately do not like this person, but you also and you know that Ryan Filipe is playing the straight man. Right. Right. Against this just ludicrous human being. You immediately don't like this person and you cannot wait. Really? I love this person, but go on. I love me like, okay, I love watching the Gruber. He is such an asshole in the best way. I love watching this person. is that? He is a terrible human being. In the montage, there's a moment in the montage where he's going up to all these guys. He's going up to all these guys that are like, be part of my team, be part of my team. And he gets to this one guy, and the guy's like fixing a car and he's like, his the guy's boyfriend comes up and give him gives him a lemonade and they like kiss and the grubbers like he's clearly very uncomfortable and he's clearly homophobic. And you're like, my god, I'm rooting for this homophobic guy for the rest of the movie. I love that they made you do that. I love that they like are like forcing you to pick. action hero. So we to the gas. Yeah, exactly. We haven't gotten into to act the second act, which is where we where we find out what he did to do your Von Kahn to make him so yes. So angry and and so we're not going to we're not going to get into that. But pairing wise, you know, immediately I don't I didn't like kombucha. Right. I was not I was not a kombucha fan when I first started drinking it. And then I kind of the taste grew on me. It does. And now I can't get enough of this stuff. I cannot, it's slightly fizzy, it's slightly refreshing, it's sour but not in a bad way. And so I have the Trinity, this is the Trinity kombucha from, I forget what the brand is, but it's uh really solid drink. You know, you can start making your own. It's really easy. You know, my wife used to, she's got the starter and everything and she used to, but this was before I got into kombucha. That's still a special blend. All right. Well, let's move on to act two. The trio travel to Kunz nightclub in Las Vegas to dig up dirt. A driver in the parking lot is rude to McGruber and angers him, so he repeats the license plate number KFBR392 obsessively to remember it. He's going to find that fucker again. McGruber gets up on stage at the nightclub and announces who he is, his intentions, and where he will be the next day. Piper is angry at this since all McGruber achieved is exposing himself and his mission, revealing that he's alive and back in action, the one advantage they had without finding out anything new about Cunth. Their sting operation that follows has Vicky portraying McGruber and hanging out in the street as bait. Haas Bender, Henchman attacks McGruber in Piper's van, but McGruber hunts down and kills Bender. They find a large amount of cash in his trunk and an appointment later that day in his diary. McGruber is baffled what that could all mean. Then Piper says it's obvious Bender was going to use the cash to purchase the bomb codes. With Vicky then disguised as Bender and Piper disguised as McGruber, The team attempts to break into a warehouse to stop Cunt from getting the codes. McGroober distracts the guards by dancing naked with a stalk of celery sticking out of his ass, which allows Piper to kill most of the Ben, but nevertheless, he is unable to stop the transfer of the pass codes. Colonel Faith tells McGroober that Cunt is having a charity event that evening and orders him not to show up there because the element of surprise is still an advantage they should hold on to, not realizing McGroober already threw that advantage away to no purpose whatsoever. So MacGruber ignores the orders and confronts Cunt at the charity event, threatens him and his guards who simply throw him out. MacGruber returns to the Pentagon where faith reprimands him and takes him off the case. Piper meanwhile finds MacGruber's notepad where he scribbled the license plate KFBR 392 obsessively in serial killer level psychotic fashion adorned with illustrations of him shitting on the driver. Later, MacGruber and Piper have beers outside his trailer. While McGruber explains his history with Cunt, McGruber met him and Casey Fitzpatrick while they were in college. Cunt was engaged to Casey until her affair with McGruber, who then asked her to abort Cunt's baby. They were so in love. McGruber and Piper are suddenly attacked and McGruber uses Piper as a human shield to survive an ambush escaping with Vicki. They believe that Piper was killed in the attack, but he reveals he was wearing a bulletproof vest, commending McGruber on his quick thinking only to realize that McGruber wasn't aware of the vest. Piper then leaves the team in a rage. Seeing MacGruber has been shot in the leg, Vicki takes him back to her house to remove the bullet. She confesses her love to him, admits she's a virgin, and they make noisy, sweaty love. MacGruber then goes on to Casey's grave in shame, but her ghost gives her blessing, and so they have noisy, sweaty sex ah on her tombstone, MacGruber and her ghost. As he leaves the cemetery, McGrouber actually spots and destroys the KFBR 392 car after he sees it parked by the side of a street. End of act- my god, and and what what you don't get in that is the mm-hmm the um The way that Will Forte plays it, the way that Tacon directed that beat where he's burning the car, where he destroys the car, you have this real, MacGruber has this realization in the middle of the scene, like, oh my God, they're gonna target the State of the Union address with the nuclear device. And he calls Jim, he's like, Jim, Jim, we gotta stop him. You know, he's on the phone with him. But while he's doing this, he's still. pouring gasoline on the car, like he clearly has higher priorities than destroying this car of the guy who made fun of him. He's still like equally like intent on finishing the mission. until he was done before he made the call to be fair. He made the call while he was still doing the car. So I mean, they were they were equal priorities. Yeah, they were equal. He was in process for one, you know. In this like, it's the the it's the this the the what's the word? What's the word incongruity? The incongruity of this really important moment of like, of realization and panic mixed with right with doing this stupid, stupid thing that he should not have done in the first place. Which is kind of the cool thing that MacGruber does with his action movie thing where the action movie part is really, again, really serious, right? And so the incongruity is like the action movie parts kind of happening while the comedy thing is happening also. And they're happening kind of on top of each other. So affecting one or the other. that layering of that serious, you know, the serious real danger stakes to the character and the comedy that the audience is in on. little side note here. Apparently, Will Forte said that the day they filmed the celery scene, his family, mom, I think his sister, maybe his grandmother. wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, What about the do you have this story on about about him making love to to Kristen Wiig and how it was her birthday? her when he was yes and it was so hot it was in this top floor of a building that was on a seed and it was super hot outside and apparently you see her in the movie dripping sweat on her and she does this thing with her hand and she's actually beating the dripping sweat away breaking. Yes. And she has to turn away from the camera because otherwise she will. Yeah, she will. Yeah, she keeps turning away and then you could be used to see kind of and she even kind of covers her mouth and then beats the sweat away. And it's like, but I love that they kept it all in. That is amazing. going back to the car real quick, apparently that was not in the original plan that wasn't even in the original shooting. They didn't have the budget to burn the car. So that subplot ended with the notebook being found and they never had a payoff with the car. um But then they were allowed to do reshoots with a little more money after they had turned in kind of that initial cut. That was the one time we really really car. Right. But he's like, you really felt the lack of our budget in that moment where we like we couldn't do anything to the car. But then they were able to go to town on the reshoot and do it's like they burned it. They bashed it. And fun fact, they weren't able they weren't able to get them in for this. But the guy driving the car was supposed to be Richard Dean Anderson. I was, yeah. out of the bushes. was going to be MacGyver that was driving the car the whole time. Yeah. The full story on the celery stalk thing. um Just because I have this written down here. Dallas, do you want to read it or you just want me to go for it? Okay. um So Will Forte said, we were all writing in my apartment. The guys were looking at MacGyver clips and they saw a thing where he has a number of items assembled. There's a carrot there. He says something about what he's going to do and they say, how are you going to use the carrot? And he just says, oh, I'm hungry and takes a bite out of the carrot. One of us said something about MacGruber finding a carrot lying around and questioning how he would use it. It wasn't even a real pitch. was more, so this is stupid. This is so stupid that he should just stick it up his butt. The cinematographer, Trust, said, we were all hanging out in the same hotel room and Will just kind of walked out into the room just to show us what it would look like, unprompted. Forte. then said, when we started moving forward with the script, the MacGyver people were not happy we were doing this. Our lawyers then said, just to be safe, change the carrot to something else. Okay, we'll do celery. By the way, it was not in my butthole, it was in my taint. I just want to set the record straight on that. Tacone later added, I'm assuming Will told you the story about the celery. It was the day his mom visited. Yes. So. So Forte then said, my God, she had two friends, She said, we are going to Santa Fe in the afternoon, so we're going to come see you in the morning. And I said, what do you think about going to Santa Fe in the morning and then coming to see the scene we shoot in the afternoon? She said, no, it works better for us to come see you by in the morning. So she got to watch that scene with her own eyes. And I remember after a take sitting there naked, cupping my balls, standing there and looking back at my mom. She was fine. She was used to the kind of shit that I do. Her two friends, though. were a gas. That's so funny. That is so funny. ah I love when you have a child who's like an SNL type sketch comedy person and you're like, yeah, this is what he does. Yeah. My boy. And, you know, he there's no there's no hiding that it was him to copy his balls because they did a camera move from his face down to down to the reveal of the celery in his butt. Right. uh Yeah. And then. Ryan Felipe does he is all right. He what he did do his as well. He did. did his as well and you there I think there's like a behind the scenes or something like that where you see him do it and he's clearly like, okay, are we done? Are we done? He's like he doesn't want to do anymore. Yeah, Although he didn't say they tried, they kept asking him if he really wanted to do it. And he was like, no, no, no. like he knew what kind of movie he was in. And he's like, I'm not going to get a chance to do something like this again. So it's like he was uncomfortable, but he really wanted to. the way, most people show up to a Ryan Philippi film to see some skin. So I don't know what the hell. Yeah. Around that time, especially around that era. Did anything change with Act Two? I mean, it's more ramping up the sex scene. I think the sex scene is probably the next like van exploding moment where it just takes it to another level of just absurdity. And again, seeing these actors do like the fact that Kristen Wiig, how she was responding. And I love that she also, she's dead silent. Then he rolls off and goes to the side and then she starts. Doing this kind of out of nowhere and I'm like I Wonder yeah, but she was like completely like just like frozen in place on the bed Then he rolls off he gets company and she goes And it's all in one take like there's no cutting away and I don't know. That's really funny. You were amazing have to go. And he just leaves immediately to go fuck his ex-wife or his deceased wife. Ghost. The ghost of his wife. ah It's brilliant filmmaking to have those two things just right back to back. Like there's no gap in between them. They're just like he goes straight into and then we'll get to it later. I'm sure it'll mention in Act 3. know. Anyway. All right. Right. Well, and she was the actress was heavily pregnant at the time. So they actually did have to stunt double her for the scene. that was because he couldn't couldn't go at her. Yeah. That was my yeah. My Rudolph. So uh even Will Forte was like it was at least with Kristen Wiig. It's like we were really like we're like brother and sister, but we knew each other really well. So was funny. And then he's like, it was weird having to do it with a stranger. That was that wasn't it's like that's where it got weird. That's really funny. That is really funny. a good scene. That was a good scene. think uh Dallas any any any new thoughts on the pairing for you here? Nope, still stay in the course. This is a porch super, this is a good time. We're still there. eh so mine evolved a little bit just because McRubber gets worse and worse as a human being and he just keeps proving to be like just god-awful in every way shape or form and he's not even competent which is I don't know if he ever was but that's the thing he's not even a good action hero he's like not good at anything act 3 we finally learned he does have the throat ripping thing which is like authentic And he can actually do it. And you're like, it's just one action movie move that he can like action action hero move that he can actually do. I don't know. For me, I started to shift my thinking. How did he get all these awards? Yeah, exactly. Ryan Philip, it was impressed by this guy before he got to know team and you have to wonder how much that team did all the work. maybe his talent is casting the team. Maybe his talent is casting the well in combat, although that could have just been him. being bad. was it wasn't good. So he got wounded. Maybe the team rescues him and Maybe his genius is picking the- Maybe that's his genius. Maybe that's his genius. He's a good leader. He's a good... He does pick a good team and he didn't get them killed until the movie starts so you know he had a run. You got a run. Great run. That was a great run. Yeah, I will just say that my thinking was slightly shifting because he was so bad that I was like, you know, maybe instead of just like a fun version of a serious wine, what about a wine that's normally like has a really good reputation, but this is not that interesting. This is is the MacGruber version of MacGyver, right? He it's not competent. It's not good at delivering what it's supposed to deliver. It might be fun. And it might be like easy, but it's not good. And I'm like, ooh. I think I might have to be veering in that direction. This is your shit version of something that normally has a really high reputation. But once you get to know it, not so good. Not so good. All right. Let's move into, of course, Act 3. Making life-saving inventions out of house of materials. McCrubber! Getting in and out of ultra-sticky situations. McCrubber! The guy's a freakin' genius! McCr- At Vicky's, MacGruber discovers Comth has kidnapped her and plans to blow up Congress during the State of the Union. Comth calls MacGruber to gloat. MacGruber traces the call and Piper agrees to help on one last mission. Making their way into Comth compound, they are captured and taken to Comth. Vicky and the missile. MacGruber is against using guns, but this time they are pinned down and Piper forces MacGruber to pick up firearms. MacGruber admits that he doesn't know how to use a gun, is only reason why he objected. So Piper gives him a crash course. They pound Kumpf and crew into submission and Gruber handcuffs Kumpf to a handrail. MacGruber proposes to Vicky and she accepts. They remove the warhead and guidance system and escape as the missile explodes. Kuntz escapes using an axe to chop off his handcuffed hand. That is such a glorious 80s action film reference, by the way. Six months later, MacGruber and Vicky hold their wedding with his dead team members attending as Jedi-like ghosts. Mirroring his wedding to Casey, MacGruber spots Kuntz with an RPG. He saves Vicky and battles Kuntz, throwing him off a cliff. behind the altar, shooting him with a machine gun and launching a grenade as he falls, incinerating the corpse and finally urinating on it from the top of the cliff. Roll the fucking credits. Now what are we thinking boys? The the ending there is is is genius because it's it is you right before the the rocket that kills the the the pastor I guess. ah Behind the two of them. He asks a question like do you McGruder take Vicky St. Elmo to be blah blah blah blah blah to have him told the whole spiel and then it's this whole fight and then he he He knocks him off the cliff. He turns a Piper. He gets the gun as if this is necessary that he needs to get this gun to shoot him on the way down. So he's falling off the cliff. He shoots him while while he's falling off the cliff, launches a rocket launcher, pisses on him, then puts the gun over his shoulder and turns like in the direction of camera. I do. I'm saying I do after pissing on this guy. That's where the sequel starts, of course. It's going to be Son of Magruder, by the way. I'm writing it as we speak. Uh, some great lines in Act three when they're searching for Vicky in this compound. uh, McGruder, you know, locks onto this door down the hall. Vicky's in there. I can feel it in my balls. they. The most juvenile, absurd brilliance up and down this entire movie from top to fucking bottom. For sure. Yes. For sure. It is as uh I can't remember if it was one of us who said it or something I just read about the makers, but they were like, it's just a dumb movie. We were just weird people making a dumb movie. And but we loved it and loved what came out of it. And it does it just it works as I think to John's point, like it doesn't challenge you. Right. In any sort of real intellectual way. That's not the point. You're just here to have a lot of dumb fun. Right. Yeah. There are movies that are going to challenge you and make you think and question how you feel and explore deeper themes that you hadn't considered before and show you new perspectives. And this movie does none of those things. It is just to make you laugh your ass off. If that's your style of comedy. it's not, you're not gonna like it. is well and the joy is even when it's not your style of comedy it's dumb but then it always at least in most cases like sometimes it's it's dumb in just the right amount you expect and then it moves on to the next scene but a lot of the times it's like dumb as you expect then it takes a little bit more a little bit more a little bit more and it keeps piling on in the same scene until it takes it somewhere we are like okay i what that was get wasn't ready for you to go that far it does it does something so well. It gives you the stock sort of skeletal structure of those matinee 80s action films. When you sat down for one of those films, you knew you weren't going to get life changing narratives or literature or anything. You were there to see some blood, some guts and some explosions. And this does that so well. But on top of that, it layers this ridiculous comedy that is taken so seriously. And it's Yeah, it's it's weirdly fantastic. It shouldn't be good, but it's weirdly satisfying. eh It's the team that brought it together. know, Yurma and Seth Meyers and all these really funny people. Will Forte, who I, by the way, have, this is the real humble brag, have had the pleasure to direct via House Broken, because he was one of the characters on that show, who's just a super nice guy and the smartest comedy actor of our age maybe. uh Some of the best comedy instincts around. um And they brought together this amazing team and just like, love it. I love it so much. Yeah. So one last behind the scenes tidbit considering Val Kilmer's death at the end. So throughout the film, McGruber menaces Kilmer's cunt with a disturbingly specific threat that entails cutting off a certain body part and stuffing it in his mouth. Over the top as the movie is, however, that moment never arrives. What happened? So Felipe said sometimes it's hard to tell if these guys actually planned on putting Val through that. I heard that he didn't want the image isolated and separated. Kristen Wigg said, I was probably left out of that conversation. Tacon said he was absolutely going to get it shoved in his mouth. It was a big argument between us and Val. I pitched it to him mercilessly like, are you sure you don't want to do it? He was laughing the entire time I was pitching it to him. He said, I just think it would be funnier if I was a lesser actor. OK, wow. I said, no, actually the better actor you are, the funnier it is. That's true. And then Forte added, think in the back of all our heads, we thought let's just get to know him. Maybe he'll change his mind. We wanted to fulfill the promise made throughout the entire movie. We're three weeks in. We're having a great time. Everyone is feeling like the movie is going well and we're doing good stuff. We have become pretty close to him. We thought we'll just ask him again. Maybe he'll say that he'll do it. But he said, oh, no, no way. Yeah. Even at the bitter end. And cinematographer Tross said, you know, maybe it is better the way it is, but that was like the one real compromise. I mean, think it's, didn't know that story. didn't know that they were actually planning to do that. In the current version, they do, like, the way that he played it was, the that Val Caomber played it was so funny because he's like giddy when he explains to MacGruber that his member blew off in the explosion so he doesn't get the chance to cut his dick off and shove it in his mouth. And like the way he plays it is just like mad-eyed and like, that his dick is missing and so No matter what you do to me now, you still don't get what you wanted. You don't get you want. And that's that is the ultimate revenge for him, even though he lost his penis. He's willing to make that trade off. And in the theatrical cut, there's actually one other instance he says it throughout the movie, like two or two or three times, I the Gerber says, I can't wait to cut off your dick and shove it in your mouth, two or three times. But there's one that they cut. That was actually from in the scene where where he was just about to beat the crap out of him, handcuff him, ah where if you look at like, if you go on like YouTube and search for that scene, they actually have the thing, the cut that didn't make it into the release, the theatrical release or the whatever release that I have access to. And it's him saying when, ah wait, what is it? Okay, hold on, I have to do this right, I have do this right. It's like uh he punches, he punches Val Kilmer, he punches Cunt in the face and Cunt says, you punched like a little girl. Will Forte, a Magruder says, well soon you're gonna be walking around like a little girl because once I'm done defusing this warhead, I'm gonna, and then Kilmer cuts him off, cut off my dick and shove it in my mouth. God, you're like a broken record, to which Will Forte responds, the only record I'm gonna break is the amount of your own dick in your mouth record. The most absurd, like. repetition. I don't know why they cut. I mean, I get why they cut. Because it's like there's a tonnage at a certain point. But, but that is such a brilliant line. The only only dick in your mouth. Maybe they didn't want people thinking about it by the end because they weren't going to get to see it. Maybe that's why they cut it. Yeah. true. That's true. Yeah. But I still think I think it could have worked because again, Kilmer has that line where he's like, no, you don't get to do it. So I think it all could have played in. And again, this movie is slightly under 90 minutes. Like you don't need to cut shit. It's slightly under 90 minutes. It's all dumb. Like keep all the dumb lines. There's no reason. Keep it all! Honestly. All right. Well, let's wrap this up by revealing our final pairings. Now, John, you already revealed a little bit about that pairing. Say it one more time for our listeners. What's the full name of the beverage that you want to drink with? This is yes, I got it synergy kombucha. The flavor is trilogy Trilogy synergy kombucha. movie themes. That's that's not bad. ah Something that John once thought he would hate, um but then found that he loves it. Yep, that's correct. That's what you need for McGroober. Dallas, what are you drinking with McGroober? ah So, MacGruber is an all season, all occasion watch. I mentioned the Golden Girls earlier. It is a show that I can watch at any point of the day, any point of the mood, any point of the year. It doesn't matter if I'm sad, happy. Police Squad is another slightly off genre medium here. I do think that this wine, which is based on the Vidal Blanc grape, Dave, are you familiar with the Vidal Blanc? It is a Virginia grape. Yeah, it's a staple Virginia grape. I chose Virginia because the scenes they do in DC at these massive compounds don't actually exist in DC. They exist in Virginia. So, you know, people like to to play Lucy Goosie with the Virginia DC, Maryland geography and films, but The Vidal Blanc is a Virginian staple grape. is a cross between the Oogmi Blanc and the Rion Dior. It is very hearty. uh Like MacGruber. MacGruber is very hearty. He didn't get to this amazing resume without being a little hearty. it's a hybrid American and hybrid America fuck yeah absolutely Yeah, man, absolutely. That's the point. And uh it thrives even in the coldest wine growing regions. know, Margrouber has apparently been everywhere and survived somehow, even though he is this absolute fucking fop. ah This particular but all block from Revelation uh Vineyards or Revelation Winery in Virginia area. In this wine, you get these flavors of honeysuckle and pear. It's complemented with this candy sort of fruit and citrus. um It can be made in variety of styles, of course, from dry and crisp. And it is also found in the sort of ice wine versions of varieties. Aromas get. That's why Canada loves it. Exactly. Notes. You get this posh pear, yellow apples, the acidity, the body. um are all pretty medium as well as the alcohol. And yeah, it is an all season sipper and a Gruber is an all season watch. That's what I got. What about you, Davey boy? All right. Yeah, for me, I was stuck on the idea of like, okay, what is the MacGruber version of a well respected wine? So I was like, you know what one of the most well respected wines in the world, and I didn't want something a little serious, I wanted to still lean towards that. So was like, what's a serious, well respected wine in the wine world? Pinot Noir, baby. Yep, right. It's Burgundy in Burgundy, the most expensive wine in the world. That's all Pinot Noir. And then of course, Pinot Noir big in California, Washington, Oregon, one of the big American grapes over here as well. Generally tends to be pricey because of how well respected and how like elegant and delicate and complex and blah blah blah fuck all that What I wanted to do Was get the Charles Shaw for buck Chuck version of pinot noir Three dollars and ninety nine cents a Trader Joe's baby. This is this is your MacGruber version of pinot noir How do you take something that is? dynamic elegant um is functional, does the job that type of people are and then you take some like how do you get that for $4? Well, you got to go find honestly, cheap juice. Weirdly, this is an organic Pinot Noir. I don't know how but apparently it is certified organic for $4. You're going to be dealing with basically you basically you're going to go find some pretty low quality juice for that price. And then you're going to need to MacGyver that into something drinkable. Like that is basically what they got to do. They got a man. They got to manufacture some of that wine. That is not it might be the grapes might have been organic made with organic grapes, which I think is what it claims on the bottle. Yeah. At some point in time, that was organic. Not by the time it's touching your lips. So you're going to be manufacturing how that wine is going to be good. But at the same time, honestly, Charles Shaw for four dollars, if you guys haven't tried Charles Shaw recently, is it good? I mean, is it like a beautiful, elegant like no. Is it drinkable? Yeah. Am I drinking it if that's what they're serving at a wedding? when you're drinking it. It's good when you're drinking it. It's good when you drink. It's perfectly drinkable. And so it's a little bit I feel like this connects to the whole thing. And if you cannot take Charles Shaw, this movie is still the humor in it, as we've discussed already, from all three of us, the humor is amazing. It's really well calculated. It's really well performed and executed. So if you want to go get a more if you're spend over $30 on a pinot noir, you're in the right ballpark to make sure you have a good pinot noir in your hands. Under $30 you're hitting danger zone territory with pinot noir. But over 30 bucks, you're in safe territory. If you want something that you're actually going to like, like the humor in this film, do that. Or if you want to MacGruber it and really get into his headspace, you need some four buck Chuck and sit down with that for this MacGruber. Honestly, that I had a couple of four buck Chuck's kind of set aside that I had from a different event. The Pinot Noir was one of them. And I'm like, you know what? Let me try this out. I'd already tried a couple of things for the first half of the movie. I was drinking that for the second half of the movie and I was like, this just works. This is what you need. It doesn't challenge you, as we've already discussed as well. It's just drinkable. You're not thinking about the wine. You're not going deep on it. It's not making you're not you're not contemplating jack shit. You're just drinking it and you're having a you're having a good time. And that's that's what I recommend for McRubber on this case. And on that note, guys. Go find McRubber, it is streaming. think, did I watch it on Tubi? I think it might be on Tubi right now. it on Tube? I bought it. Number of years ago. My library. HBO. Okay, you're right. It might have been HBO Max. Okay, so not not for free. Is this it is a subscription streaming service. But go see if you can find a copy rent a copy if you need to rent a copy for a relative. It's probably like 399 to rent these days. But it is well worth your while john thanks so much for being here. Tell our listeners where can they if they want them to follow you online, where should they follow you on I am most active on sub stack. So if you find me at how not dot sub stack.com. That's usually the best place to find me. You can also find me on Instagram. Sometimes I'm there. Jonathan G stall. Okay, is my handle. I'll give you all the you know, QR codes. links links links yeah we'll find it we'll find it all those links will be down below guys yeah to a sub stack say hi i'm a tv writer you also like MacGruber, come be part of the club. Say hi. Yes, and check out Case in Point. We will have a direct link, a clickable link in the description of this episode. And now before we go, dear listeners, do you love this podcast? 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And if you ask nicely, we will also help you with your wine and movie night will help you find a wine to pair with whatever it is you're planning to watch. Just hit us up on sub stack and we will happily do that. We love doing this. We're more than happy to do it even more. And many thanks to our sponsor this year curated wine shop no idea where to begin finding a wine that pairs with your movie. Yeah, no shit. Nobody does. But Curated is here to help. accept every entertainment-inspired challenge and will curate the selection to match your palate. Just tell them what you're trying to pair with, your budget, your preferences, and they will show you the way. Curated is a boutique wine shop on La Brea Avenue, mid-city Los Angeles, founded and operated by Peeps currently and previously part of the entertainment ecosystem. Johnny, Kelly, Allison, and Mia, they're all fantastic. Go meet them. They carry an ever-changing wide-ranging selection of small lot artisanal wines, from the known and comforting to the completely unique. We're talking reds, whites, rosés, oranges, sparklings, dry wines, sweet wines, and everything in between. I don't know what that means, but everything in between. Go check them out if you're in the LA area. Find them online at curated-wines.com. They do ship. So if you want to order from them, we would deeply appreciate it. That's curated-wines.com for curated, entertainment studios.com for us, entertainment bros, and hownot.substack.com for our very special guest, John Stahl here. Thanks so much for listening. We will be back in one week with another one in entertainment pairing. Fo Yo Entertainment, ciao for now. Signing off. Later guys.