Wine, War, and Wit: TO BE OR NOT TO BE (1942) w/ Comedy Writer Carrie Freedle

CARRIE FREEDLE is a comedy writer and screenwriter, having penned a number of holiday and comedy features for Hallmark and Netflix. Today she joins us to discuss one of the greatest black comedies ever made (and one of the earliest!) - Ernst Lubitsch's TO BE OR NOT TO BE from 1942, starring Jack Benny and Carole Lombard,

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THE WINES (AI-free search links):

Sante Bucciarelli Sancto Liquoroso, Italy

Emile Beyer "Les Traditions" Pinot Blanc, Alsace

Bomon Shampe Angel Rose Brut, Ukraine (Support!)

Chapters

• 1:48 Wine Trivia Question of the Week
• 4:20 Comedy and Screenwriter, Carrie Freedle!
• 13:44 Today's Movie: To Be Or Not To Be (1942)
• 17:23 Director Ernst Lubitsch
• 20:56 Background on the Movie
• 31:49 The Cast: Jack Benny and Carole Lombard
• 43:13 Dave's First Impressions (Seeing it For the First Time!)
• 47:28 The Original Poster - Hiding the Darkness
• 52:25 The Humor Amongst the Darkness
• 1:05:14 DALLAS: Sante Bucciarelli Sancto Liquoroso, Italy
• 1:11:15 CARRIE: Emile Beyer "Les Traditions" Pinot Blanc, Alsace
• 1:14:32 DAVE: Bomon Shampe Angel Rose Brut, Ukraine (Support!)
• 1:21:52 Wrap-Up! Favorite Moments Not Yet Mentioned

Transcript

0:00

Because it's deliberate. mean, well, the poster is different, the movie is deliberate. It does lure you in. And then Act 1 ends with war. And then you get into Act 2, where he's now combining the dark shadows and the darker music with the lighter scenes. And it's fascinating. And also, I'm going to get so nerdy on y'all. I'm sorry. Are you not Ventertained? Yes, sir! We'll have a real good time! He's Dave, and I'm Dallas, and this is Vintertainment. We have opinions on just about everything. Sometimes those opinions are spot on. Sometimes they go down easier with a glass of wine. This is entertainment, the wine and entertainment pairing podcast. Back to another wine and entertainment pairing for your entertainment. This is the podcast where we pair wine with entertainment. It's as simple as that. We always know what we like or dislike, but we rarely know why. So what better way to learn about that than by comparing different wines to different types of entertainment and compare and contrast how they both hit us and affect us the way that they do. As always, I'm Dave, your WCET Level 3 Certified Wine Professional. And I'm Dallas, your professional writer and world builder. And now for the wine trivia question of the week. Our movie today takes place in Poland and Vitis Vinifera, the species of grape most associated with wine in Europe, was discovered to have been present in the country since which time period. So to more clearly express that question, Vitis Vinifera has been in Poland since your choices are A. The Middle Ages circa 5th century to 15th centuries B, the Bronze Ages, circa 3200 BC C, the Holocene Era, circa 11,700 years ago D, the Miocene Era, circa 23 to 5 million years ago. So again, your choices are A, the Middle Ages B, the Bronze Ages C, the Holocene Era D, the Miocene Era Choose your answer. No take backsies, of course, or Dave will get mad. but not as mad as me because I spent my time reading this. And we will reveal the answer in three, two, one. The correct answer is D, the Miocene era. Yes, 23 to five million years ago. So way, way, way pre-humanity. We know this thanks to botanist Vladislav Zaffer, who discovered fossil vine seeds in the Viltschka. Yes, I butchered that and I will do it again in about one line. Salt mines, a stone's throw from the biodynamic pioneer, Winnica. I like that name actually, Winnica, uh Wileczka. Yeah, I like the way that's pronounced. We'll go with that. The first Polish wines were likely made in the ninth and 10th centuries on the slopes of Wawel in Lesser Poland, initially only for the church, of course, because the church always has first dibs. But by the 14th century, secular drinking started to grow, though often interrupted by multiple wars. thank God for wars and spreading culture. It was a flourishing industry by the 1800s. Then communism overtook the country and demanded cheap, faster alcohol aka not wine. But since the 1980s with the fall of communism in Poland, and its joining of the EU in 2004, Poland's wine industry continues to grow and mature through exported Polish wine, which is still fairly rare to find. Whatcha got, Dave? I tried. I tried finding some. was it for this episode. But now let's introduce today's special guest who picked today's movie, the one that takes place in Poland. Please, everyone. Welcome to the show. Screenwriter Carrie Friedle. Carrie. Originally, hey, originally from Nashville, Tennessee. Carrie is a comedy screenwriter based in Los Angeles. She got her start at Second City where she wrote, directed, and performed with various sketch groups around LA and has since had multiple films produced, including Winter Love Story and My Secret Valentine for Hallmark. She's covering her face. And Afterlife of the Party and the Holiday Calendar for Netflix. And it should be noted that the Holiday Calendar was voted one of the... quote unquote, most liked holiday movies on Netflix. So maybe make certain to check that one out, the holiday calendar this holiday season. Then she's currently writing a new holiday feature for Netflix that's going into production in 2026. So watch the holiday calendar this year. You're gonna have a brand new Carrie Freedle holiday movie on Netflix next year. Nothing but Carrie Freedle for your Christmas time, or at least you're gonna watch more than one movie for Christmas time, let's be honest with each other. So stick it in there. Make sure that you're jamming that in as well. We met Carrie at our first in-person wine and movie pairing here in LA when we showed the short film Terroir paired with Catherine Bigelow's Near Dark for Halloween with a curated wine flight at Curated Wine Shop here in LA on La Brea. And we just may be doing a holiday repeat with one of Carrie's holiday films. She's actually trying to nix that with us. She's shaking her head. She's like, no, no, no. Show something people will. Show something. better that people will really enjoy. don't know. We'll see. I got to check out the holiday calendar. Maybe it will rank. bring it up. She's still covering. She's still bearing your face. All right. Well, maybe not. But definitely she might join us for a holiday movie of some kind since she's written holiday movies and join us at Curated to maybe help host that live in December. We are still working out the details, but expect our next live wine and movie pairing at Curated Wine Shop to happen in December with a holiday theme. We hope to see you there. Follow us on Instagram or Substack. Just search Vinertainment Podcast and you will find us. And then you can follow what our plans are and when you should, uh how you can reserve your place at these events. All right. We hope to see you in person someday soon. And Carrie, welcome to the Vinertainment Podcast. We are thrilled to have you here. How you feeling today? How you love being I feel like this is a roast. uh No, not at all. Hey, we're taking your lead. That's right. We were trying to push your films. You roasted yourself. I mean, I'm a writer because I guess I hide behind the scenes and then when you start hearing your things laid out, it's like, oh, wait, I'm not like somebody in her pajamas in front of a computer anymore. It's curious you say that because I was just uh having a discussion the other day about that sort of glory days when the writer was in fact the most important figure in the entire team. You know, it was the film of the writer once upon a time. You know, you hear about those glory days in the late 80s and 90s when million dollar deals just for the script alone acquisition deals were fairly the norm. And uh part of this conversation was that uh the person I was talking to thinks that we're sort of returning to that because we've had this uh steady diet of just general content for general audiences over the past decade and a half. So, you know, maybe there's a million dollar script uh acquisition in your future there. Mine too, god damn it. bring it on. I mean, do feel like there is uh a big writer director moment that's been happening over the past few years, which is really exciting. But you're right. Like just the writer. It's I, I do see it. I am starting to hear it and seeing it with people I know and hopefully us as well. But Yeah, and as a comedy writer, mean, yes, I've done these Christmas movies and that's fun. That's not the only thing I do. I do all the things I can. That's on your business card. That's only thing I is like, yeah, the name of my company. oh But as a comedy writer, you know, we've kind of gone through this comedy slump, you know, and I do feel like that's coming back as well. think people are craving just not just entertainment. People are craving just getting lost and having fun with movies again. And so as a again, as a comedy fan. and a comedy storyteller, I'm excited about that. I feel like there's more opportunity now for different types of stories, not just Christmas movies. Where do you, just out of curiosity, where do you hope comedy and specific goes in the near future? Is there anything in particular that you would like to see more of or like a trend towards? I mean, theater, the theatrical experience, like I really, really don't want that to go away. mean, earlier this year, like sitting in the theater and watching like the Naked Gun reboot, for example, was so much fun just sitting in a room with everybody and just laughing. And so I hope that doesn't go away. I think that's something that did get lost with the pandemic and various other things. So that's a trend I want. want to see, you know, that's what, where my heart is, our studio comedies. You know, like we all grew up around, you know, eighties, nineties, two thousands. And then the ones like this one that we're talking about tonight and others that, know, that just that theatrical experience. Like you guys are film nerds, like, you know, in uh the movie Sullivan's Travels, are you guys familiar with that? oh, right. Add it to your list. So Sullivan's Travels. See? See neither of us. Oh, okay. All right, film class of Carrie. So Sullivan's Travels, around the same time as, you know, the one we're going to talk about, but it was 1941, Preston Sturgis, huge writer-director at the time. Yeah. And in Sullivan's Travels, the whole story is, it's this broad comedy, big studio director who really wants to tell dramatic stories because he thinks that's what the world needs. The world doesn't need comedy. And he goes on this journey to get back to like, wait a minute, people, you in his mind, if somebody's going through a hard time, you know, he should express hard times in his art, in cinema. But he goes through this journey and put the, it literally puts himself in those people's shoes and ends up finding that, wait a minute, what he'd been doing, telling stories through comedy and making people laugh is actually such a great antidote for escapism. So I don't know. That's a very long way to way about answering your question, but that's what I want. I want to sit in theaters with people. uh So to piggyback on that real quick, Kerry, think I'm just going to answer the question. ah What this film does really, first of all, time wise, this is 1942 and this is, I guess, three years after. you yet Dallas, so don't go too far down this rabbit hole. the Okay, but the invasion happened just three years prior to this. So the idea that the source material which was I guess was a short story that another person wrote that Lubitsch I actually don't think it was a short story. We should, we should, no, I think he just came up with the story that then they the screenplay on, but I don't think he ever published it as a. seem to be I must have missed right because it said story and I thought it was listing some of the public's public things but anyway short stories, but yeah, this one was not one of them. Everything I could find. I tried to dig and I could not find it. That's why I was making that. interesting. um Anyway, so sure, story. But it was just three years after the invasion, which is magical that they were able to write this mounted and still get it done in the middle of all this. So when you ask the question, where do you think comedy should go or you want it to go more of this more of this my god? Yes, we're get into all of this in just a moment here, Dallas. So hold all those thoughts. You're going to talk more at length about we're all going to talk more at length about them here. I was just going to add to that real quick that, being in theaters because comedy, it's the infectiousness of other people's laughter that makes it often so much more like you can resist a style of humor or a certain story or a certain approach. And yet, if you have a lot of people around you that are into it and it's hard not to get carried along with it, at least a little bit, even if you're sort of like, not really my thing, but that was fun. Like you almost can't resist resist if you have that group experience with that. So I agree with you there. And on that note, yeah, this is all going to tie into what we're talking about here today. So Carrie, please introduce, tell our listeners what movie you picked for us to talk about today and why, what's your history with this film? So I picked Ernst Lubitsch to be or not to be 1942 starring Jack Benny and my personal all time favorite actress, Carol Lombard. And some people may know the Mel Brooks remake and I love Mel Brooks, but I have to say I love the original more. think everything, a lot of everything goes back to Lubitsch. OK, my history with this movie, you know, it's funny, I've been thinking about that. I don't remember the first time I saw it, but I know I've seen this movie probably over 20 times. And I think I first saw it as a teenager. ah I grew up in a movie house. There was no kids watch this movie, parents watch this movie. We all watched. My dad controlled the entertainment, so we all watched together. So I wasn't a kid who was afraid of black and white movies. hey, wow. Yeah, dad was like Monty Python time bandits, we're watch all the Brooks films. I didn't understand any time bandits scared the shit out of me. was I couldn't watch half the film. But he was like, this is what we're watching. we did Popeye Popeye scared the shit out of it. It was so weird. Okay, the fly. My dad had us watching that at like 10. Yeah, and I don't know about y'all, but like my mom was like, cover your ears or cover your eyes. oh oh Yeah, no they didn't even do that. They were like, it's on, this is what we're watching, let's go. like, Clodger Goran, she's like, good, okay, so you guys get it. And I love that. I'm so glad that I wasn't relegated to like, this is only a kids movie because it started this curiosity. Like I wasn't intimidated by classic movies. And I remember, uh like going to the video store, I remember those, and having like my allowance. I would start, I would go to the classic movie section and I would just start, uh and I would just go through the whole section. I don't know why. And I would find a director or an actor or someone like that and then just do like a whole deep dive. And somewhere along the way I found, I think it was My Man Godfrey, a famous Carol Lombard movie. I immediately fell in love with her. was, you know, she was the, one of the top actresses of the day, especially the top comedian. mean, Luzo Ball credits her. You can see her, you know. different generations of female comedians who can do that verbal and physical comedy. And I just thought she was magical. She was beautiful and glamorous, but also silly and not afraid to be messy. And she could speak rapid fire and do the physical. So that led me somewhere along the way I found to be or not to be and also come from a history buff house and watching war films, reading, talking about history. That's a dinner table conversation in our house. And yeah, that was my introduction. And again, I didn't fully understand it. there's still, every time I watch it, there's new jokes I learned, there's new things I'm still learning. ah But from the beginning, I knew it was funny. I just didn't understand why. Well, before we talk more at length about our personal takes on this movie and what we thought about it and all that fun stuff, let's talk a little bit about the history of this movie and its legacy for context. Dallas, you want to kick us off with that? uh all right, let's see. Director Ernst Lubitsch was a Berlin born actor turned director starting with silent films in the 1910s and 20s. His reputation as a grand master of world cinema reached a new peak after the release of Madame du Barry, retitled Passion in the US in 1919 and Anna Boleyn Deception, 1920. Both of these films found American distributorship by early 1921. They, along with Lubitsch's Carmen, released as Gypsy Blood, by the way, love that title too, in the US in 1921, were selected by the New York Times for its list of the 15 most important movies of 1921. Lubitsch sailed to America in 1921 to scout out the possibility of moving there, but the shadow of World War I was still fresh and his reception at the time was chilly. Nevertheless, Lubitsch recognized that the American film industry's resources far outstripped and outpaced the Spartan German companies. A year later, he was contracted to direct his first American film after having directed over 40 films in Germany. The 1923 film Rosita was a commercial and critical success, and Lubitsch was given a multi-picture deal by Warner Brothers immediately after. The director also thrived when sound was introduced to cinema and the era of the talkie began. Largely directing musicals, Lubitsch's were some of the best received. His romantic comedy Trouble in Paradise, 1932, fantastic if you haven't seen it, was another massive success that was described as a truly amoral in any approving way and soon ran afoul of the enforcement of the production code. After the after 1935, the film was pulled and never received a home release until the 2003 DVD. On July 27th, 1935, Lubitsch married British actress Vivienne Gay. They had one daughter, Nicola Anna Patricia Lubitsch on October 27th, 1938. When war was declared in Europe, Vivienne Lubitsch and her daughter were staying in London. Vivian sent her baby daughter, accompanied by her nursemate to Montreal, aboard the Donaldson Atlantic Lines SS Athenia, which was sunk by a German submarine on September 3rd, 1939. With a loss of 118 passengers, the child and the nurse did not survive. Just kidding, they survived. They totally survived. That brings us to 1942 and to be or not to be. Luigi's final black and white film. And sadly, almost Lubitsch's final film period as health problems quickly overtook him after To Be or Not To Be, allowing him to direct only a couple of additional films before his passing in 1949. Even more tragically, the film proved to be the last for one of its cast members. As we are, already talking about the great Harold Lombard, who while on a war bond tour died in a plane crash a mere one month before To Be or Not To Be was released. And with that said, Let's look at the film itself. Synopsis. Acting couple Joseph, played by Jack Benny, and Maria Tura, played by Carol Lombard, are managing a theatrical troupe when the Nazis invade Poland. Maria is having an affair with Lieutenant Sobinski, played by Robert Stack, who suspects Professor Solecki, played by Stanley Ridges, is a Nazi spy. With Solecki in possession of a list of members of the Polish resistance, the Tura's company takes action. Using their skill for impersonation, Joseph and company must confuse the Nazis and stop Solecki from handing over the list. To be or not to be is a tragic comedy, truly a black comedy before that term existed in the American parlance. ah so critics struggled to define and understand its blend of humor and authentic horrors. As Jeffrey O'Brien wrote for the Criterion Collection, quote, comic relief was something understood and accepted and indeed was to become the bane of many a wartime melodrama. But to be or not to be did something rare, then or at any time by interweaving farce and disaster in such a rigorously structured fashion as to elicit in the very same scenes, genuine anxiety and a hilarity so acute that it has some something like an ecstatic At every step, it keeps plainly in view just off screen and detectable even in the comic buffoonishness of Sig Rumen's Colonel Erhart, the possibility of real terror and soul destroying cruelty, real suffering. The fear is real. And even though each emerging danger is deflected by the most ingenious comic solution, another danger soon enough takes its place. So at the time, gallows humor existed, the term. was first used in print in English in 1901, but it was a direct translation of a German word of all things, Galgenhumor, originating in 1848. The French term humor noir was coined by Andre Breton in 1935, who credited Jonathan Swift as an early originator of the style. But the concept of quote unquote black humor first came to nationwide attention in America after the publication of a 1965 mass market paperback titled Black Humor. Edited by Bruce J. Friedman, the paperback was one of the first American anthologies devoted to the concept of Black humor as a literary genre. So in 1942, American culture was ill equipped to understand where this movie was coming from. It should be noticed the film opens with a scene of Hitler walking around an open public Polish street and continues on to show the Nazi invasion of Poland. And this was, as Dallas mentioned earlier, 1942, we were all still in the thick. of World War II. I'm sure I've ever seen a film depict World War II. Wow. World War II was still happening. I'm not sure. It's possible, but it's not something that outside of like propaganda films, like it's not something where actual narrative films that was within the first 10 minutes of watching this film. This was my first time ever seeing this film. I'd seen the Mel Brooks version. I love Mel Brooks as well. My dad raised me on him. I love everything he does. I remember when I was a teenager, I tried to watch the Mel Brooks version of To Be or Not To Be. And I don't even think I finished it. Well, if I'm being honest. Yeah. So I was very like, I think I checked out at some point. Like I don't I have very little memory because I think I expected Mel Brooks and he got another director to direct the film. So it's only he wrote it, co-wrote it and he starred in it. But someone else directed it. And there is something about that movie that I've never tried it again, but nothing quite clicks. Whereas this movie, this was my first time seeing it and like everything clicks. This is almost one of those rare occurrences where you're like, why remake this? So a fun fact of history, the ancient Greeks who were ahead of their time in absolutely fucking everything it's annoying, they were ahead of their time in the concept that they would put on a play really only like once a year at like their annual. I forget what the event was, but this was like when you put on plays and the more well received the play, the more unlikely it would ever be shown again or staged again. And that is so not what any other culture ever did. It's always the exact opposite. And the Greeks were like, no, if we did it right the first time, there's no reason to do it again. Don't ruin it. Don't spoil it. Just lives Every subsequent try was trying to make a good version. when you to capture the muse, of capture the moment, absolutely. Capture the God. So I've always, so yeah, with a remake like this, this is one of those movies where I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. If we got it right the first time, got it so bloody right the first time, let it ride. I I'm not speaking for Mel Brooks at all, but I'm guessing, you know, because it's Lubitsch and he's a god in film history, especially like, you know, comedy history. And I'm guessing it was, you know, like Mel Brooks's love letter, but I'm like you, I watched it and it didn't click. And I'd seen the original version first, because again, I was that weird kid. And I love Mel Brooks. mean, I think Young Frankenstein is one of the funniest movies ever. And it just didn't work for me. But going back to what you were saying about, you know, a movie that takes place during World War II about World War II, it's interesting because I think it was 1940 Chaplin's The Great Dictator came out and The US wasn't in, you know, we weren't in the war yet, but it was going on and it was incredibly well received. It was, I think it was one of the top movies, top box office, most popular films of that year. I think it was 1940. So I've been thinking about, you know, okay, you have the great dictator, Charlie Chaplin, you know, have you guys seen that one? Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah. mean, it's incredible. And that's, I didn't think about that one to recommend as well, because that's his speech at the end was the first time I was laughing and crying at the same time during the movie, you know, because it was like all those mistress of emotions, you know, and, then with to be or not to be it's, was like one of the first times I'm laughing, but also afraid during a movie. anxiety. anxiety somehow being a total satire, it's a proper thriller. So I think it's interesting to think, okay, two years before, before the US was in the war, this movie about Nazi Germany taking place as it's happening across Europe, but then To Be or Not To Be is released only a few months after Pearl Harbor. mean, talk about between that and then the lead actress died selling war bonds. just terrible timing as far as release goes. And I think that was part of the stain on it at the moment. Yeah. Yeah, 100%. All right, so to wrap up the little bit of legacy here, uh nevertheless, while most critics were almost reflexive in their moral objections to the film, and they were, there were some real dirty takes back in the day, quotes from Lubitsch suggest that audiences had no such qualms, and the film was positively received. We actually don't know this for certain. As box office reporting for the film is entirely untrustworthy, it's said to have only made roughly 12$100, yes, 100, which isn't believable for a studio film as that same year films like Bambi made 77 million theaters. it was wide released. So box office figures during those times are notoriously, like sometimes the studios reported them, sometimes they just didn't. They just failed to do it. So we have like the 1200 reported and we're just like, we just don't have any other. for whatever the film made. So we don't know how well it did in the box office. We do know that it has made 1.5 million in rental sales once it hit home video. So we have tracking of that the home video has been fairly successful, but its original box office is essentially lost to time. But over time, the film has come to be considered one of the finest comedies ever made by critics, by the public, the viewing public. by uh amateur writers online. This has been a very well-beloved film. uh It was written by playwright Edwin Justice Mayer, author of the critically admired but commercially disastrous play Children of Darkness from 1930, a work too literary for a Broadway hit and too dark with its side of condemned prisoners in 18th century London for the comedy it was meant to be. To be or not to be differs sufficiently from any other Lubitsch film. that it seems fair to grant mayor a decisive role in shaping its black comedy style. Lubitsch is credited as a co-writer with Jewish-Hungarian author Melchior Langiel credited with the story by, though, as we mentioned earlier, I could not uncover any additional details on that story. Even though Langiel was a prose writer, there doesn't seem to have ever been a short story that was written. I think he just came up with the story and we know Lubitsch was friends with Langiel, so. The story came from Langiel and then the screenplay was predominantly written by Mayer with the co-writing credit by Everything I've read, Lubitsch had a heavy hand in it, especially taping that it's a theater troupe. He was giving knots to his days in Berlin. Okay. an actor. Yeah. And I don't know, there was no writers guild back then. So there were no rules over why you got to co if you were a director and getting co writer credit and whatnot. I don't think there were any rules at the time. um So now that's always useful because then you know, they wrote over 50 % of the screenplay these days. But back then, it's sort of like, well, okay, he wrote what he wrote. But likely, yes, I mean, he obviously shaped a lot of this movie because he was not just the director, but then the story came from his own close friend. ah But yeah, Mayor, from what I've read, like Mayor, a lot of people think like certain parts of the comedy, the darkness and the comedy and the way those things twist together in this movie. A lot of people think Mayor might have been like the the point of difference between this and any other Lubitsch movie for that reason. And let's talk about the cast briefly. Lubitsch has said to have never considered anyone but Jack Benny for the lead role and Benny was so flattered that he accepted the part on the spot. On the other hand, Carol Lombard was not the first choice for the role of Maria Tura. She replaced original first choice Miriam Hopkins. Fantastic. Yes. And she was much she was writing much higher than Lombard at the time. From what I've read now, I've read multiple different accounts for how Carol Lombard came to play the role instead of Hopkins. I've read three different accounts just and then I stopped researching. was like, OK, no one no one knows for sure. But one source stated, quote, Lubach had originally cast Miriam Hopkins in the role of Maria Tura. But when Hopkins displayed dissatisfaction with the role, Carol Lombard urged her to withdraw. and was subsequently cast in her stead. But another stated, quote, Miriam Hopkins was the original choice for Maria Tura, but she turned down the role when she realized Jack Benny got all the laughs and she would be working as his straight man. Hearing of Lubitsch's predicament, Lombard asked to be considered for the part, seeing the overall quality of the material, despite the controversial subject matter. It also gave her a chance to work with the acclaimed director whom she long admired. It also gave her the opportunity to work alongside her friend Robert Stack. whom she had known since he was a teenager. And though Benny played the lead character, Lombard received top billing, which she did, for to be or not to be. And yet another third source stated, quote, but radio star Benny, thrilled to be in a film directed by Lubitsch, was less enthusiastic about working opposite the temperamental Hopkins. The director complied with Benny's wishes, replacing Hopkins with Lombard, who had long wanted to work with him. Carol also agreed to provide production money in return for part of its profits, which as we all know, she never got to see. No, no, no. What's preferred version of this story? As we know with film history, there's a lot of like, who knows? I don't know Maryam Hopkins, but you know, there's a lot of like, let's pit actresses against each other. what uh I do know about all the nerdy stuff, you know, being such a Carol Lombard fan, she was a very, very popular comedian at the time, you know what I mean? Hugely popular. Like I think at one point, like one of the highest paid actors, she was also very social. as an, you know, just a very social person and, you know, just had lots of friends all over Hollywood. And that's why to me, number two makes sense because I can imagine socializing in this world. Yeah, yeah. And like maybe she did put up some production money because she just believed in the project that much as well after being cast. Like there could be bits and pieces of all of this that kind of all go together. But again, back at this time period, we did not have the internet didn't exist, folks. We didn't have we didn't chronicle every step of everything. So some of these things are a little loosey goosey. I could not find a definitive version. I will say, I think the pairing of Jack Benny and Carol Lombard is incredible. And the love triangle with Robert Jack. I mean, it's such a great, mean, especially Jack Benny, you know, he was mainly a radio star, I believe, and he had done a few movies, but nothing at this level with a director at this level. And the way he holds his own, you know, handling Lubitsch, you know, Lubitsch's style and up against not just Carol Lombard, but Lubitsch's stock character actors who had done Trouble in Paradise and Mnoczka. mean, Benny Fitzgerald. But Jack Binney, you're right. He just, he fits in so well with Lombard. uh They, it seems like they've been working together forever. Every, you know, every beat is just right on top of the other. And it's, it's so theatrical. It's so live theater. And as a person with a background in live theater, you know, everything about act one rings so true. like it's just the egos the it just it's so well it's just fantastic their relationships. Great. All right. Right. It's good stuff. Yeah, there's a quote by Lubitsch when uh one of the critics, like something they wrote about the film, he, oh, they kind of, I think they suggested that because he has a German background, like he was making a film that laughed at the invasion of Poland. And so he was mocking that invasion and seeing how funny it was that Poland was invaded by the Nazis because he was Berlin born. He was like, he was writing it from the perspective of theater and acting and actors. And that I think the quote, I should have written this down, but to paraphrase it a little bit, he was saying that actors are always actors no matter what is going on. And I think that to be a truth, a true observation where it's like they're never not actors no matter what the craziness is, no matter how tragic, no matter how light, whether they're winning, whether they're losing, they are still in their like. but we're actors and we're acting and my ego and my role and my career. And it's like, they can never stop. They can never get themselves out of that. So he's like, this was making fun of that and putting them in that situation where you got to see that. And I was like, yes, Spada. And of course I have a theater background as well. I have a college degree in theater. Like that is where I came from as well. So it's like, yeah. So, it's... Go ahead, Carol. Okay, I carry. and did you just call me Carol? Carol um, Carrie, Carrie not Carrie. oh I know what you mean though about actors will be, you know, the paraphrase, actors will be actors. That's one thing that I think is so smart about, you know, having these lead characters be a theater troupe. Because if you're getting, especially how we meet them in Act One, if you're getting these narcissistic leads who are so caught up in themselves, if you're getting them to actually care about something else that's going on, then I think that's... Ljubic saying like, I'm not making joke or light of the invasion of Poland. I'm saying it's so important that even the most narcissistic characters on my screen are involved in care, you know. Yeah, begrudgingly, but they do it. especially Jack Benny. And I agree that Carol Lombard, can see her timing. One thing that's impressed me about her in this movie, because I don't think I'm that familiar with her work overall. um If I've seen any movies with her in it before, like I just haven't been that aware of it until this moment. This was the first time where I was like, OK, this I'm focused on it. I know who this actress is and I'm watching her performance. And Jack Benny, he's great in this part. I can see, though, why Mel Brooks thought he could possibly remake it in that role, because he's got a very style. He has a delivery just like Brooks does. And they're different styles slightly, but they're very, like from that Baudelian era. And they're from that very, like, we give the delivery and we do the patter and there's a rhythm to it and da da da da da. And Lombard is whether she's riffing off Jack Benny or someone much more stoic like Robert Stack. or whether any of the bit players or the Germans or whoever it is, like everyone's got a slightly different energy and a slightly different pattern. And she's just swimming, she's surfing on those waves in like perfect form every single time. And I can see why she, this character, it's funny that possibly Miriam Hopkins thought that she was playing second fiddle to Jack Benny in this. because I can see why Carol Lombard ultimately got top billing and why that character is truly the lead, the ultimate lead, is that everyone else is coming and going and she's the middle. She's the one that's going between all of them and they're all kind of more pivoting around her in a circle. And then that's how the story and the plot is really driven. And just watching her bounce off the others without ever really changing her style and yet it's seamless. And that was... really impressive to watch the timing. All the humor works because of the timing. She's an excellent straight man. It's funny because she was always the, the, she was never the straight man in her. Yeah. Like she started, you know, with the Maxson at bathing beauty, she started, you know, pie in the face kind of stuff. And if you watch, you know, this is, you know, her last film, but you watch the stuff that came before it, like the ones that really made her a comedy star, like my man Godfrey 20th century with Howard Hawks. Incredible. Is she in, um, uh John Barrymore going toe to toe. mean, there are all these really great movies and you're watching this actress who has a very, you know, she died young, she died in her thirties. So there's only a small. Yeah. And you're watching her evolve. And then when you get to this movie, she there's like this maturity. And like you said, the steadiness that she has with all the chaos around her, which is so Funny, because she's usually the chaos. It makes me wonder what, you know, what turn her career could have made because she exhibited such prowess in this sort of straight man role against these highly skilled comedic actors, right? I mean, really, really highly skilled. mean, they operated like a troop and she really stood her own and just sort of, I mean, she was the star of the show in that way. And it makes me wonder what, you know, what turned her career could have made after this. Yeah. You can see her working with Preston Sturgis and Billy Wilder. yeah, yeah. When she has the character has that great line uh later in the movie where they're like, we need to cause a commotion with a Gestapo. And she's like, well, I've caused a commotion with every Gestapo man I've met. And that's what character is about. Right. It is. It totally is. And they're like, not that kind of commotion, not that kind of commotion. uh way, speaking of- Three tons of dynamite. Oh, yes. Yes. Yeah, some great lines in this. And and my favorite was and this is the line that actually they got in trouble for this is the line that got them in trouble. When he says to you know, we're talking about care. He says, what he does to Shakespeare, we're currently doing. Yes. Colonel Al Hart, yeah. he dropped no quick pause quick pause he'll be back he'll be back his internet's terrible I don't know I'm so glad you guys liked the movie. so much. I guess we're recording. can keep talking. This might be used. Yeah, okay, so it was your first time seeing it. Tell me what you thought like, yes. It was fun because when the first I remember at the time or what I've read was that at the time that opening scene was like a shock for audiences. When because of course it's Hitler just like we're gonna have Hitler just walk out onto the streets and it was a shock to me. Because it opened and that was my dawning because I you know when I was turning it on and son streaming so it has the date and it's like 1942 and I'm like uh-huh. And this is the best part of To Be or Not To Be. I didn't remember the Mel Brooks movie. I love and this is how I prefer to do it. I looked up nothing about this movie before watching it. I had no idea what it was about. I didn't know the log line. I didn't know the premise. I didn't know anything. I was like, it's called To Be or Not To Be. And it's from 1942 play. And when that opening scene started, I was like, OK. And then instantly I was like, wait, 1942. And this is the opening scene. And I was like. that's wild. That is so instantly like that was the grab. And I was like, all right. And when I read later that that was the graph for I'm like, yeah, I'm in 2025 that grab me instantly where I was like, holy shit. Wait, what is this movie doing? And when it turned out to be the actor just trying out a part, I was like, all right, that I didn't see that coming. I didn't see that slight twist. And then from there, the movie was just bloody water. Like it just flowed like friction free scene to scene to scene. everything just seamless. And by the time it was over, think it was like before I ever started researching it or looking into anything. It made me feel like this was a level of black humor that was like kind of unique for the time. It was a level of especially because World War Two was going on in that moment. It's like you don't have the black humor. You know, it's kind of like, what would be a good example? It's like if someone made a blackly humorous like Ice Raid movie right now. And it was, and it came out and you'd be like, how do I feel about this? I'm not 100 % certain. place, right? Right. And it's like, do I laugh and do I have fun? Movie because there is that. Yes. It's interesting. was uh listening to a podcast. were talking about Inglorious Basterds. And this wasn't one of the many influences on Tarantino for Inglorious Basterds. Especially with, you know, they both end with these big theater scenes, you know, with Hitler. Even the way Diane Kruger, she kind of looks like Carol Lombard in this movie, even though she's playing more of a Dietrich character. uh You know, so it's so interesting how this movie, you know, like you said, tough at the time, like critics weren't kind, but it's been such a huge influence on so many movies since, you know, and I was reading, I'm sure you guys, you know, read this in your research as well because the tone, you know, was new, you know, at that time, you know, if you look at the way it's filmed, you know, act one is filmed like a comedy, you know, it's a rom-com, it's a love triangle, it's a marriage comedy, but then Act Two, when you get into Now It's War Time, it's shot more like a noir. there's more... Even the music changes, you know, and so it's interesting, you can see Lubitsch creating this genre as he's going along and like you said, like kind of educating the audience while he's creating it. And now we're used to these things, but yeah, you're right. At the time, I bet it was very, you know, like, okay, can we laugh or not? Yes. Can I also I'm you just I'm glad you just said that because you just reminded me I want to share something I want to share the poster the original poster for this movie real quick. I'm going to share a screen and because this blew my mind because you were like it's filmed like a normal rom-com right where it's just like it's frivolous. It's not there's nothing heavy going on ah on screen. So let me show you. This is the poster for the movie. Wow. missing from this poster. There's nothing about the war about not so wonderfully sanitized. That's beautiful. These little images on the side used to have like, what is this like Clark Kenton Lois Lane? Yes, kind of running from an office building kind of a thing. Yeah, that's so funny. And it looks like all the other like marriage comedies at the time. looks like. Yeah. You're like, I'm watching Carol Lombard being like the ditzy bride or whatever. Yep. Wait. I never paid attention to that. Yeah, interesting. I'm glad I completely forgot I wanted to share that until you mentioned how this was filmed so much like just your generic and I'm like, ooh, the poster. That poster is ridiculous. it's deliberate. mean, what the posters different, but the movie is deliberate. It does lure you in. And then Act 1 ends with war, you know, and then you get into Act 2 where he's now combining, you know, the dark shadows and the darker music with the lighter scenes. And it's fascinating. And also, I'm going to get so nerdy on y'all. I'm sorry. But, you know. Because I have been watching this, I've seen this many times since I was a kid. Like I said, every time I watch it, there's a new line that jumps out at me or I'm learning something new. And in one of my recent watches, I watched it with some friends, I think like a year ago. And I didn't know the history of the, if you prick me while I bleed speech for Merchant of Venice. And it's done purposefully three times in the movie and each time it's used for a different purpose. And after I looked that up, I didn't realize that the Nazis had used that speech and that character of Shylock as propaganda. yeah, and I think it's really interesting and smart. And again, goes back to Lubitsch is not making light of the war. This is a man. German Jewish man who is in the US who is fighting back against what's happening using the tool he has, which is filmmaking. And he is using this thing that the Nazis used as a propaganda tool and he's turning it around and using it against the Nazis in the movie. You know, because we hear it when Greenberg says it in Act Three, it's so they can, you know, defeat the Nazis. And there's so many I mean, you we hear about the Lubitsch touch and it's usually more about his innuendo with sex, but he's also doing it here with politics. It's politics. And it should be noted that the Greenberg character was played by an actor Felix Brassart, who was a Jewish German actor who fled the rise of the Nazis and then came to America and he gets to do those speeches in this way. That was on purpose, know, for lack of a better to add meaning. gets all the smoke. You know, it reminds me again of even Benny Hill of uh Mel Brooks's later work. uh Sometimes when you find these sort of send ups of like Nazi regimes or know, Nazi parallel regimes, there's always one almost foppish character who just gets all the ire from, you know, the higher ups. uh It's usually a Schultz or someone like that. It poor guy full sorry for Schultz And you know the actor that's always yelling Schultz Billy I mean he was a big you know character actor at the time and worked with Lubitsch and other things but he's also he plays a Nazi in Stalag 17 you know Billy Wilder and you know again here's another you know person who fled their country making a living you know playing these characters that he fled from. That's a good point, yeah. It's like even when watch Casablanca and you hear that a lot of the extras were people who had to leave Europe, know, it's that kind of movie. It was that kind of fun. One of my other favorite lines was... uh You saw a man with a beard and you didn't even pull it? love that. You saw a man with a beard and you didn't even pull it? Which is such an actor line! Also- It absolutely is. I'm sitting here with two guys with a beard and I really want to pull your beards. Ha ha! I don't have enough, he's got enough to pull. You'd have to claw it, really. I'm a little too small. Which is funny, because even the way he shaves it, because that beard was not very big either on Sulecki. And the way he kind of shaves it off and puts it back on, I'm just, mean, of course it beggars reality. It's like, no way would that work. Like that is not even possible. But it's hysterical the way it does. And it twists, and it twists. The witcher? the setup of the beard is great, because it's just a throwaway line. Right, right. When they're pointing out with the throwaway line, like, oh, he lost his beard. We had to give him an extra. And you don't think about it. And then it turns into like twist, twist, twist. And it's funny watching Jack Benny, the great actor, you know? We've seen him in these scenes before where he doesn't know how to improv. He doesn't know how to work without a director. You know, he keeps going. And so you call me concentration cap Earhart because he doesn't have Right, right, right. He gets better as it goes. He gets better as it learns how to improv and I think the beard thing where he's like, okay, wait, I'm an actor. I know how to like put, you know, makeup on. I know how to put a beard on it. It's so funny watching him that. He did give the guy a complete shave in what must have been about seven minutes. And then he loses his beard in the car at the end as well. this is, yeah, this is the, oh yeah, just the must have, but this is the part, it just keeps going. Like this is a gag that's like every time facial hair is involved, it's like, uh-huh, we're going back to this. you, but it does take you unexpected. It takes you unexpectedly every single time. I think the other thing that's unexpected about this movie though is the, you know, we mentioned how it's like, oh, there's always, it's an actual thriller. There's. There's danger, there's tragedy, but it is like people die. And it's actually kind of surprising when it happens, when it starts, the way it happens. Like it weaves in and out of a style of comedy that is usually always delivered in a completely frivolous, lighthearted type of movie where nothing is that serious, nothing ever is. And then goes right into the, This is the kind of movie where it is deadly serious. And this is the kind of movie you're watching them right back. And that is, I have to imagine, unique for the time. It's kind of still unique for this time. um It's not something you see all that often. And it just does it. The people who made this film, they understood it. Like it works because they got it and they weren't struggling to make it happen or struggling to make it work. It's just made sense in their head. They made the film. And I think that's why it works. think that's why a remake slightly doesn't like Mel Brooks was like, that's close to my style of humor. I think my version, I want to do my version and my style of humor, my deliveries. This can all work in my way. And then it just doesn't like this was the formula. This was this was the recipe that made it. So. Like even talking about the beard and the mustache flying off, these are just gags. Like they are moving the script forward. And even the funny dialogue, like all the funny lines, even the shulks, like the payoff to hearing that running gag and hearing shulks, it's paid off when like you're talking about death, know, Ayrhart, Ayrhart, Ayrhart, anyway, he has that moment where, you know, Hitler air quotes comes to see Marie Tura and he tries to commit suicide behind the door. And fails! And fails! And screams Schultz! you're like, my! oh Because we've been trained to laugh at this name and then you're like, wait a minute. He just tried to kill his son and messed up. Right? Yeah. Right. Yes. I rewound that and watched it again just to make sure that I caught all that. Correct. I was like, did he just try to kill himself? Failed and scream Schultz and they did it as a gag. And I went back and I was like, did I miss what that gunfire was? And I went slightly back before it when the other characters leave. Then the door closes. Then that happened. And I'm like, holy shit. Like, again, this movie, the humor is ahead of its time. Like this was not the way this type of black humor often was seen or works or I certainly have not experienced it all the way back in 1942 before. So it just kept taking me by surprise how, where they went and how well they did it when they went there. But also, like you said, there's payoffs. There's repeat, there's repetitions that evolve and then pay off, which is something that is very not Mel Brooks. it's something he doesn't do that often and I feel like that might again I would need to rewatch the remake to really remember yeah I have not seen it no longer so I get the feeling that might have been something missing from his go ahead Yeah, I think the Brooks version because it I think it is clearly like 40 years later. I think his version came out and was it 82 83 was it was an 80s film right? 83 83. Okay. Yeah, yeah, like, you know, 40 years later. um So it really is just sort of a probably just a send up of a film he really felt connected to rather than, you know, that one does feel a little like uh which he as it normally. Yeah, but this would even more it feels like sort of an homage like just a direct homage to this film I mean he was trying to remake it. He wasn't sending like young Frankenstein was a send-up of the universal horror monster genre and then know silent movies and blazing saddles West High-enzyte Hitchcock right. It's like this the specific send-up was his shtick like that's what he did I think he tried to do something different with to be or not to be but it wasn't Really the fit he'd hoped I think again translation I think this is more, it seems more like an homage to the director and the film itself, which is why it seems tonally just, it just doesn't hold up to this at all. um But, know, it's Brooks, so I'm gonna watch it. So we love it. He's great. I feel like with this movie, even though this is one of the many things I love about comedy and it's what I hope and I strive to do as comedy is, think comedy is disarming. I think you can hit bigger subject matters and you can hit harder things, but you're doing it, you're laughing. And they don't realize, like you said, you had to rewind. You're like, what did I just get? I was laughing. Wait a minute. He was telling me something and I think that's something Lubitsch does so incredibly well with this, with all his movies, but especially this movie. You could tell this is a storyteller who was emotionally has something to say. Like he has a point of view. He has very strong feelings about what is happening, you know, what his home country is doing to other countries, what is happening in Europe and now the U S getting involved. And that's why it's so, again, I don't, we don't know what it was like at the time, but It's so hard for me now to read some of these reviews saying that Lubitsch was making light of the war because you can tell this is being made by a filmmaker who very much was not and is making this movie because he has to. He's invested. This is his way of fighting the Nazis, you know, as a filmmaker. He's using his weapon, his weapon of story. This is his weapon. This is his tool. you know, we mentioned earlier, like, you know, you asked the question, Dave, of what you would like to see or where you would like to see comedy go. And it's this it's the idea that, you know, we take such serious subject matter, but not just serious subject matter. It's subject matter, the matter that is pressing. It is happening as this film is written and made. Right. And so it's sort of it. It's satire. Sure. but it's also political commentary and social commentary and all those things. It's also holding a mirror up to these absolute horrors that are happening. It's skewering these sort of archetypes that are causing so much destruction. And on top of that, or maybe at the base of that is comedy. And the only way you could do the heavy lifting that he does in this film is by sort of sandwiching it in between, you know, the bookends of uh satire and, you know, camp for lack of a better term, right? And I, yeah, you know, it's, he doesn't, he does an amazing job doing that because uh it also reminds me of the sort of general audiences fair we grew up in, in the late seventies and eighties where a kid's movie had actual stakes and danger. uh Like you mentioned Time Bandits, Dave. Yes, that film was creepy. it's a kids movie. It's a kids movie. It's a general audiences movie. Right, right. It starred a child. Then it was a general audiences movie, which is tantamount to a child's movie. Terrifying. Terrifying. Terrifying. You know, because the stakes were returned to Oz. Well, that's terrifying for a different reason. That's just bad. ah I need to rewatch that too. I need to rewatch that one too. Now that I mentioned it. But it's a similar thing. And I think it's because what you're alluding to, Kerry, is that it, it takes all of our worst fears are really acute fears, universal fears or prescient fears, and sits them sort of center stage, but allows the sort of pressure to be taken off by the madcap sort of antics that are happening in the relationships. And we don't necessarily see that anymore because of our, it seems the industry trend towards generalizing comedy towards making sure that it's as flat as possible so that it can open in all the global markets at the same time. And it doesn't have to be interpreted or translated for local color or, you know, all that stuff. So again, in reference to the conversation I was having the other day, I pray to God we get back to a place where the you know, the person the people with something to say are allowed to make the film and you know, might be satisfying in a way that films haven't been satisfying recently, ah in a way that this film is satisfying. So, all right. Thanks for coming to my TED talk. uh As you were talking, I was thinking about uh Robert Altman's MASH. MASH came out during the Vietnam War, but it was set so they could get away with it during the Korean War. And that's another movie, again, I feel like to be or not to be watched, so MASH could be one. All 17 could run, so, and Lawrence Basterds, Jojo Rabbit, you know, whatever, the list goes on. And MASH is one of those movies. It's dark comedy. It is dark. And there's death in that. And there's stakes in that one as well, but also really funny. And it's been done. I don't know, going back to what we want in comedy, like, I just want a variety in comedy now, you know, like... this kind of comedy, broad comedy. I just want us to have options with comedy and that's something I hope move back toward, you know. I think, you know, authentic voices and having something to say tends to take care of that if they allow for it. versus... There you go. Yes. Right. Exactly. All right, guys. Well, that brings us to the wine pairings. It is time to talk about what it is. We decided to pair with this Dallas. Why don't you kick us off then Carrie, you can watch how Dallas does it. Then you'll have an example. You'll go and then I'll bookend right after that Dallas kick us off. What did you decide to pair with to be or not to be and why? All right. So I do, think this film is a meditation on comedy, it's meditation on like unchecked ego, it's meditation on the horrors of war. It's a meditation and it is certainly satisfying. And I tend to enjoy these sort of, I'll call them like grand ruse style films where you get a troop of people who have to do a thing in order to get out of danger, know, that sort of, um it's, It fascinates me because I like the interplay and the architecture of it all. the film is very tongue in cheek, but it's against a really serious backdrop. um And that tension is real or at least palpable and real for the audience. um I do think it's lighthearted, but it's also intense for the reasons we stated, right? It's the stakes are real. There's real death happening or at least the danger of real death happening. And it's also sweet in its own way. It stands the test of time and I doubt anyone's ever truly thought of this film as bad if they were actually paying attention to it. uh And so I wanted a wine that was kind of just all of that. Also not to mention the Shakespeare connection as the Bard was known to toss in a reference to about sherry or fortified wines, particularly uh the holy wine. And uh I went with a dessert wine or a Vinsanto. which is often known as a holy wine. is a traditional Italian sweet dessert wine from Tuscany, uh generally thought of as from Tuscany. The grapes are dried to concentrate their sugars before fermenting and aging for at least three years. It's stored in chestnut, oak, or acacia barrels. uh A quirk of this glass of wine is that it is uh always used with the madre or the mother. to initiate fermentation. And if you guys don't know what the mother is, um so essentially think of it as think of it as sort of the sediment you get in a bottle. um We also use the term mother when it comes to yeast often. So sometimes you can have a strain of yeast that's 100, 200, 300 years old because they keep taking, saving little piece to start a new batch. And it's the same thing with this wine. So they add a little mother from a previous fermentation to the bottles that is used to initiate fermentation. um And that's how it's sort of propagated and perpetuated. So you can have bottles that have mothers that are connected to mothers or madres that are many, many, many decades and not centuries old. uh And I chose the Sante Bucciarelli, Sancto Liquoroso. I love Liquoroso. Love that phrase. That word. uh It's like I said, light but intense. is dominant in terms of taste and profile with the with an almond. And there's a little citrusy. There's I have it written down. Why am I trying to think? Honey, dried currant, raisin, nutty notes. uh The grapes are a blend of Grillo, Catarrato Bianco and Inzolia. It is at 16 percent ABV and I think with a slightly more fruity than minerally. um There is some question as to why they are called Vin Santo, the holy wines. One is that they were connected to papal uh rights. The other is that, uh what was the other one? God damn it. uh I know, right? I right? I forget the other two, but there are two other sort of reasons that uh are speculated on as to why. called the Holy Wines or Vincent too. So yeah, that's it is is it is really, really sweet. um But I also think this film is weirdly sweet. In context, knowing Lombard's fate knowing Jack Benny's relationship to the production. So uh yeah, that's what that's what I It's a very human film in a lot of ways, like even that love triangle that keeps threatening to bloom. never quite becomes a love triangle. It's always like almost a love triangle. And yet the characters are always weirdly like they are uh devoted to each other and keep working for their safety no matter what. It's like no one ever gets ostracized or kicked out or, you know. F'd with or, you know, attacked, the guys don't go at it, like nothing. It's just also been cheating on him for like a day. Well, there is no suggestion that this is on and off. This guy never happens. right, right. She even says when the kid is backstage, she's like, what? do you want to tell my husband? Like, why do you want to my husband? And the final scene is fantastic because you see he does the exact same recall, the coda to the guy, you know, him getting to that point in the solo the And the guy standing up in the audience and walking away again is like, God, that's just fantastic. Anyway. All right, Gary. And then one last mug from Jack Benny where he sees that happening and it's like ultimate mug from the whole... because again, it's the payoff of just keep repeating and getting worse and worse and worse. Anyway, Kerry, go ahead. What have you got? What did you decide? Okay, well, I don't... I can nerd out over movies. I love wine. I don't have such a beautiful explanation as you do, Dallas, so we're just gonna slum it with me here, I'm sorry. uh I went more... uh When I was looking for a wine to pair with this, think... So I went more historical and I went more location. So obviously I could not find Polish wine. um But I went with... a Pinot Blanc from Alsace. And the reason why I chose this region is because historically, currently Alsace is in France, but historically it's gone back and forth between Germany and France. in thinking about this movie, you know, it kicks off with the Germans invading Poland. So I was thinking about invasion and when, you know, any invasion, but with this movie in particular. When the Germans invaded, they tried to get rid of everything culturally that had to do with that place. So that's why I chose Alsace because in 1940, Germany didn't just annex this part of France. They wiped everything out and made it a part of the Third Reich. So I for more historical take, you know, regionally on that. And then because the movie is set in winter, I know it probably makes more sense to drink red wine in winter, but I wanted something crisp and with a sense of heat. To me, there's... Reminds you of the snowiness and the crispness of the- And to me, there's a sense of humor in that. And this movie has this like sly, surprising sense of humor. And to me, it's like a surprise, almost a drink of cold white wine during the winter. So that's why I chose this. And flavor wise, uh it's, you know, upfront, it's citrusy and a little like, you know, tarty, which, know, you could say our characters have that at the beginning. And then as it settles, you know, I'm getting a little bit of grassiness, a little bit of hay even. I don't know what hay has to do with the story. I like how this wine, even though... Going back to Mel Brooks, uh You know, wine evolves, it seems like really light and silly and frivolous at first and then the wine keeps evolving, but it never gets so complex that it's it dominates. yeah, that's what I went. I like that. I that. I like that. And to the best of your ability, read out the year and winery. And then you said it was Pinot Blanc. Pinot Blanc. from 2023, Emile Beyer, Les Traditions. Awesome, I wanna taste the wine you guys have. What gifts? This is why we need a And we can go to curated, which is where you got your wine, right? You got you got that wine from curated. eh where we all met Q, which also fits with this meeting here. That's right. 100 100%. All right. So to uh to round this out, you know, my first thought, of course, I quickly was like, does Polish wine exist anywhere in the US? And there was like maybe a few like I could mail order something for like in a not from overseas, but like a couple warehouses had a little bit of some I had no idea if it was any good. um I would have had to have bought, you know, if you're going to ship alcohol in the US, like you got to buy a lot to make it worth your while. And I was like, I'm not spending that much money. I was like, no, no, no. There was this raspberry wine you could get fairly easily, but that was the only thing I found. And I was like, no, I don't think a berry wine is what this movie is. my first thought was I wanted to find a wine that sparkles. I wanted to find a sparkling wine because this movie is effervescent. It's sparkling wit throughout. As we mentioned before, it's filmed like in certain ways, like the patter. It's almost like it's a normal comedy. and that it's not doing all this darkness, it's not doing all this tragedy, it's not a semi-thriller. So to match that wit and to match that patter, I'm like, let's go with something sparkling. I'd really hoped to find a sparkling Polish wine. I'm sure they exist, but I could not. um I was thinking dry, not sweet for me because as Dallas mentioned, the dry wit, um but also the bleakness of its humor. needs a bite. It needs something that wasn't too pleasant. because even though this movie is so easy to watch and it works on every level, there is part of what makes it work is the unpleasantness. Like you're watching stuff that is authentically dark. So this is not quite a feel good film. There's some pain here. There's suffering that has to be accepted and taken in alongside the humor. So sparkling dry, something with a bite, minerality, less fruity, the less fruitiness, the better. So I really wanted that Polish sparkling wine. Then I started to look at Poland's surrounding countries, right? And then as Kerry mentioned, you know, there is, does share a border with Germany. It shares a border with Austria, but it is the polar opposite border than where all the wine is. So all the wine is like all the way to the west of Germany and Austria and Poland is to the extreme east. So I was like, that's not a great fit, that doesn't feel quite right. So I kept eyeballing all the territories that shared a border with Poland. And then I found the one that just sort of like stopped me in my tracks. It shares a border and shares a story with this film in the modern day. So I chose this bottle right here and maybe you can read this little ribbon. How do I get it on the camera? Hold right there. we go. right there. Perfect. So it's, I stand with Ukraine on the bottle and I found a sparkling Ukrainian dry rose wine at Total Wine. God damn it. um So this one, this is a pretty big uh Ukrainian, but you know, they're currently being invaded as we speak and uh their president is an actor for Christ's sake. I mean. Okay. It's just like I was like, okay, let's do. So this is a Bomon Shampe Angel Rosé Dry Sparkling Wine Brut. Brute means mostly dry. Brute is actually still with a touch of residual sugar remaining. It's so little you won't notice the sugar, it won't taste sweet. But the amount it will be just enough to sort of counterbalance all. the bite and the acidity in a sparkling wine, because especially in a place like Ukraine is gonna be acidic. It's gonna be crazy up there. So, Brut is probably better. Extra Brut means even less sugar. And then it's only if you find a sparkling wine that says Brut Nature, which is just spelled nature, but pronounced Nature in France. That means in French, Nature means nothing added. And that's the wine where it is bone dry. But it has to be a wine that works bone dry. Let me tell you folks, having tasted this one right here, this would not work bone dry. It would be way too much, minerality and acidity. It is up there. So, Beaumont Champ, this wine is produced by Odessa Vinprom, which it sounds like someone in the stock market came up with that name. I'm like, what? But the wine is produced by Odessa Vinprom, the oldest enterprise in the Ukraine, and according to some sources, the largest enterprise in all of Europe. There is some the AI. Just just just enterprise in all of Europe. So it's very old. So it was established in 1857 by French winemaker Francois Nouveau in Odessa under the name NUVO, NUVO N-U-V-O Cellers and produces wines under the quote unquote French Boulevard. and quote unquote Robert Guleyev trademarks amongst others, including my winee, Bowman Bomon Shampe. This is a group that was state owned for the longest time in the Ukraine. And they sold it in 2021 to a private group finally and sold it off. now it is privately owned. Bomon Shampe is a label like in America. It's actually got good representation. It's a total wine. So. You can, it's the only Ukrainian wine you can find easily. So it's like, it made it over here. um You'll find it mostly at bigger box wine stores, not the little ones because they are a bigger seller. All grapes are Ukrainian terroir. It's a blend of Sauvignon Blanc, Cabernet Sauvignon and Pinot Noir, I think. um That's the blend for the semi-sweet version of their rose sparkling wine. I could not find a list for this dry, this brew. specifically, but I'm going to assume it's pretty close to the same grapes that they're growing and blending and then they made a brute version, but no promises on that. I think it's a blend of Semillon Blanc, Pinot Noir and Cabernet Sauvignon. It is, it smells like strawberries, rhubarb and radishes and tastes like it too. It's like a strawberry radish salad with like a sharp vinaigrette dressing tossed in as well. It's got strong minerality. And that is something apparently Ukrainian wine is infamous for right now, is like the mineral finish is really intense with uh their terroir over there. So, Beaumont Champ, I say go, this is their uh Angel, what do they officially call this? Their Angel Dry Sparkling Rosé in the black bottle. They make a semi-sweet and a sweet version of the rosé too, so be careful, make sure you get the black bottle. That is the brute. is the almost dry one. I say go dry. If you are someone that you need the sweetness, this movie is sweet enough. Go with it. Make yourself happy because drink something that's pleasant, because even though there is sadness in this movie, the viewing of it is pleasant. It is just a well-made bloody movie. And you know what? Hey, stand with Ukraine, support some Ukrainians, see if you can find this wine. Give them give them some bucks. Cheers to that. And all right, any final thoughts on this movie before we wrap up, guys? Is there anything we haven't said yet? have a question for you guys. ah What is either your favorite line of dialogue that we haven't said yet or joke or favorite scene from the movie? I'm gonna say uh Opening something that we haven't said yet. Go ahead I'm going to say in terms of favorite scene, the opening cold open sort of tableau is so arresting. And I'm willing to say that a lot of the backlash for this film was based solely on the cheeky nature of those opening sequences when we revealed that the Fuhrer was an actor. I'm going to say a lot of the fucking kickback was just that because It's so unexpected and it seems so rude and so appropriate at the time. But I'm going to say that turn that little device was fantastic. That's probably the thing that made me kind of just fall in love with the film and the try and the execution. But yeah, that's the first thing that comes to mind for sure. I think for me, it's going to be, it's the moment when I finally started liking Jack Benny's character as a character. Don't get me wrong. He was, he was doing what he was supposed to do, but then, you know, his character is kind of unlikable. It's like, you're not supposed to really like you, you almost want to see Maria Tura and Robert Stack just like, you're like, yeah, like make that work because this, this isn't working. Like whatever this marriage is. Um, but the The scene that made me start to like him, and I think it's a scene where he really, think his character started to get good at the improvisation, was when he's meeting with Captain Earhart, and Captain Earhart, I can't remember what the line Earhart says, but he says the thing that he had improvised poorly before as him, and then he's like, I knew that you were going to say, and it's mentioned. Yeah, forget the line, but yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. And it's like, it's like, I knew that's how you'd react or how you'd respond. And I was like, all right, that was that was bloody funny. And he says it once and then the scene kind of cuts like fades out and goes on to another scene. But I was like, that was kind of a subtle touch. And it's where the fact that he just said that and then you can see him getting comfortable. He's like, I'm good at this. And he gets comfortable in his improvisational skills. And yeah, I like that was a touch that I really in the moment, I just completely appreciate. I think the other thing I that really made me uh the way they were treating this this female character. ah Because the higher ups just as to Ivan formulated the thought because I'm just thinking about it right now. But each one of them wants a little time with her and each person is willing to arrange it. That was such a little unnerving sort of contextual kind of in its time of the moment kind of thing. I was like, wow, she even in this sort of send up the satire that being a reality for a woman was a little unsettling. It was a little as a little as like, wow, they really have no qualms about trying to pass this poor woman around and she has no say in this. That was that was that was definitely a Yeah. anyway, in case she's in charge. And they even have that line, Colonel Earhart has a line where like, I don't know how I feel about women, know, as spies, but he has no problem trying to like have dinner with her. oh right. Right. Right. Well, it goes to show her character too, where she's never flustered by any of this. Like it's all taken as she's like, this is all I expect from any of you. And so she's like, right. And so it's just like her being in control of the situation is important to her. she's doing it, but it's never, sometimes what the men would say, you were expecting like some reaction from her and she's like, all right, yeah, keep riding with it. at the beginning he's like you know I asked to put your name above mine on the poster and she's like you didn't have to and he's like I thought that would that's what you would say so it's like no wonder she's sleeping with every airman you know that like yeah Yeah, 100%. Like I said, it took me a while to actually like the damn guy. So yeah. there's so many, there's so many great lines. Yeah, I mean, I mean, I love, of course, the I've never met anyone who can drop three tons of dynamite in two minutes. Amazing. I've never met anyone. The response to that was great too. His response to that was great. Sorry, go ahead. This is, because we've mentioned a lot of the lines. I mean, of course, like she and Jack Benny, like, why did I wouldn't even know if I'm I'm the mother, you know, and they do the back and forth if I get sick, you did it. But this is such a silly, tiny little gag. And it makes me giggle every time. And it's the very first time that he's character walks out on stage as Hamlet, the first time he's so serious and he walks out and takes this dramatic pause. And the guy, the sca- The Footlights guy, the Footlights guy, yes. You just need to say to be or not to be. One of the most famous sentences ever in Twitter history. It's like, Jeff Beanie would never forget to be or not to be, but the fact that this guy is like, to be or not to be, he's so earnest, makes me laugh. Yeah, that was good. That was a good one as well. That was a good one too. and tiny and I love it so much. m There's a lot of moments like just passing moments where it's like when you stop to think about it for a moment, you're like, that is really funny. Like that is clever. And the way it's played off. then the moment happens and it's on to the next. It's on to the next thing. It's like there's so much in this film. I don't know. But that one every time, it gets me every time to the point where like I have to pause the movie because I'm laughing so hard because it's so stupid. All right, well, folks, that has been to be or not to be from 1942. And this has been Carrie Friedle, screenwriter extraordinaire. Thanks so much for joining us, Carrie. I'm sure this will not be the last time. And yeah, I've got more Lubitsch films to watch at this point, because I don't think I've seen nearly enough at this point. Anyone that I have seen? Yeah. was gonna say, ooh, this is tough. Ninochka, next. And then Trouble in Paradise has one of my all-time favorite two people falling in love scenes in a comedic way. So that's all I'll say. I'll leave you with that to be continued. Yeah, Those will be the next two. And then, yes, to be continued. We'll see where we go from there. And thanks so much for listening, everybody. We'll be back in one week with another wine and entertainment pairing for your entertainment. But ciao for now. Thanks so much for listening, everybody. Please make sure to hit that follow button and subscribe and leave us a rating and or review. We deeply appreciate it from the bottom of our black comedy loving hearts. Also shout out to our first three producers. Paul Kalmkiarian, Kate Ruschel, and Jessica Mayson. We just had Jessica on our previous episode, 2018's Mute by director Duncan Jones. So please check out that episode. And you too can become a producer by heading over to our sub stack, the entertainmentstudios.com. That is a glorified band URL that takes you to our sub stack. There you can become a paid subscriber. And if you do so at the producer level, you get a shout out on every episode and get to commission your own episode and tell us what to cover. Once again, thanks so much everybody. We'll check you next week. Happy beginning of the holiday season. We hope you're doing well.