Wine and Movies: LOVE AND DEATH ON LONG ISLAND (1997)

One of the most criminally forgetten and underseen movies of the 90s! Starring John Hurt and Jason Priestly.

Chapters

• 2:18 Wine Trivia Question of the Week!
• 7:54 A Gem of a Forgotten Film
• 14:48 The Wines We Paired With It
• 39:17 Critically Acclaimed, Aidience Ignored
• 44:50 Background on the Movie
• 51:29 Don't Say Gay
• 1:10:14 Outtakes

Transcript

0:05

Are you not entertained? He's Dave and I'm Dallas and this is Ventertainment. We have opinions on just about everything. Sometimes those opinions are spot on. Sometimes they go down easier with a glass of wine. This is entertainment, the wine and entertainment pairing podcast. Welcome back to another wine and entertainment pairing for your Vintertainment. This is of course the podcast where we delude ourselves into thinking that you want to hear what we have to say about different pieces of pop culture and art. But we know for a fact that you need to hear what we have to say about wine, because man wine is complicated. We know what we like, but we rarely know why. So what better way to learn about that than by comparing different wines to different types of entertainment and compare how they both hit us and affect us the way that they do. I'm Dave, a WCET level three certified wine professional. And I am Dallas, a professional writer and world builder. And together we discuss wine in terms of structure, flavor profile, and the stories behind them, all couched in terms of how well they may or may not go with certain kinds of entertainment. And we also discuss creative works in terms of mood, theme, artistic intention, and poetic notion all couched in terms of how well they may or may not pair with specific wines. Because whether you're talking about wine or entertainment, you get the most out of either when you have an adventurous spirit and an open mind. Explore different corners of what an art form has to offer. Wine itself is an art form. It's history and culture in a glass and in most cases, a winemaker's passion, just as entertainment is history, culture and an artist's passion on a page, screen or record, which is why they go so goddamn well together. The wine trivia question of the week. This is something we just started last week. When we asked you all the question, what does the term dry mean in terms of wine? When someone says this wine is dry, what are they referring to? Is it A, the dry feeling it leaves in your mouth? B, the level of bitterness in a wine? C, the level of sugar in a wine? Or D, the level of alcohol in a wine, dry feeling in your mouth, bitterness or astringency in a wine, sugar in the wine or alcohol in the wine. And the answer to that question is drum roll, please. See, dry refers to the level of sugar. That's right. Wine. It should mean the dry feeling in your mouth because that would make sense. But this is wine. So fuck you. No sense for you. It instead means there is no sugar in the wine. When someone says this wine is dry, it means they fermented all the sugar out of the grape juice and turned it into alcohol. So sugar in all fine wine, for the most part, ah if you get the really cheap bulk stuff, sure, someone might be adding sugar at the very end to the wine. Very rare, These days, most fine wine, especially all sugar is going to come from the grape juice itself. They just stop fermentation. at a certain point to leave sugar behind in the juice because fermentation is transforming the sugar itself into alcohol. So this is why semi sweet wines when you have them often have lower alcohol levels like 8% or something like that versus the normal 12 to 15 % that you would have if you fermented it all into alcohol. there's dry, meaning there's virtually no sugar left behind. There's always a trace amount of sugar left behind. You can never get rid of it. all, but it's so trace that it's insignificant. um Then there's off dry where you leave a teeny bit of sugar in there to the point where most palates might not even notice the difference with off dry. It's very subtle. Then you have medium dry, medium sweet or sweet. there's even above sweet. There's a category that is often referred to as luscious. And that is like the ultimate sweet. That is like nectar. in a glass that is like honey. It's like wine that has been transformed into something like honey. It's incredible. um And that means they halted fermentation to leave the sugar in there. So now the only time you'll we the last episode, we actually talked about port a little bit. And that's one of the rare times if you have a fortified sweet wine, that means they dumped spirits. ah into the wine. So the wine part of it actually had very low alcohol, very high sugar. Then they dumped spirits into it to up the alcohol intake. And that's the only time you can get high alcohol and high sugar levels for the most part. So that was the beginner level trivia question for you all. This week, we have an advanced question for you all. So okay, wine nerds, this one's for you. Beginners out there, you will have to Google this. If you want to know the answer, feel free to do so. But also folks, honor system, don't Google these things, try and answer without Googling and then see if you get it right. So wine trivia question of this week is, which of the following indigenous wine grapes is not self pollinating? This means They cannot flower and produce fruit without being planted near other varieties of grape vines, which can then release their pollen to pollinate this strangely non self propagating vine. Is it the vine of the grape A, a bio mayor from Spain? B, Blatina from Bosnia Herzegovina? C, Nagoska from Greece? Or D, Grignolino from Italy. We will have this all written down below, so you don't have to remember this off the top of your heads. But we will have this written down below in the description of this episode so everyone can decide whether it is A, B, C, or D. um Do your best. You have a 25 % chance, even if you're just doing it as a shot in the dark. It's only four possible answers. It is only one. um And which one? And fun fact, we actually brought this up. on one of the recent episodes, very recent episodes, this grape was already featured and mentioned that it was non self pollinating. So you better have listened to all our episodes. I'm hoping you have and if not, get back, get with it, go back and listen to at least the last five episodes or so um and see if you can find out which of these grapes is the one. All right, folks, we will reveal the answer at the beginning of next week's episode. Please leave a comment or use the send us a text link in the description of this episode on most platforms that link works. And that sends us a text if you're on your phone and listening to this, then you can just click send us a text and that will take you to the text app of your phone. It doesn't give us your phone number. It just sends us a message to our inbox via your text app. And we will see if anyone can get this right. So good luck on this one. This is your advanced. We're gonna switch between like beginner, intermediate. advanced type of things. Or email us at entertainment studios at gmail.com. That's the other way to get in touch with us. Okay. Today. Today's pick is a true gem that has largely been forgotten. Honestly, it wasn't really noticed when it originally came out. And that is a major shame. We're talking about Love and Death on Long Island from 1997, a film starring John Hurt. and Jason Priestley, which I can just about guarantee you have never heard of. I certainly had never heard of it. This is a film that was put on our radar by fellow substacker, Decarceration or Decarceration Lad, as he likes to be known, the man who writes from the yard to the art house. He's a fella who went to prison for roughly a decade from 2014 to 2023. And his substack covers the movies he missed while incarcerated while always tying the themes back. to our law enforcement justice and incarceration systems. Now we invited him to be a guest on the pod and that's coming in the very near future, but he gave us a doozy of an idea that he wanted to talk about. He wanted to talk about fake movies inside movies. And he gave us a laundry list of titles he wanted to include in the discussion. So we have been diligently working our way through watching all of these films so we can, you know, have seen them relatively recently and be able to talk intelligently about them. And it all started with this one, Love and Death on Long Island. And this one took us by surprise to the point where, you know what, let's, this is going to be a little bit of a precursor for our discussion with Decarceration Lad. um And we're going to talk about this film first. So let's talk about. Love and Death on Long Island. Quick little uh synopsis. This film follows widowed author Giles D.A.F. D.E. apostrophe A.T.H. or death. Right. Giles death. Giles D.A.F. uh played by John Hurt, who accidentally enters the wrong movie theater one night and watches Hot Pants College 2. This is our fake movie within a movie here. He becomes captivated by star Ronnie Bostock. played by Jason Priestley, and his infatuation grows and he consumes all of Ronnie's film and TV output and then soon travels to America to meet the young star and low key hilarity ensues. Now, before we get started on the discussion proper, the little bit of housekeeping that we always got to do as always, please be sure to hit that follow or subscribe button. If you have not done so already, that sincerely helps this podcast grow and reach new listeners. Also, especially if you're already a subscriber and so completely useless to us in that regard, leave a review, a rating, or if you've already done that, my God, I mean, thank you. If you've already done all of that, that's amazing. But then suggest us to a friend or family member, anyone you think would love deep dives into movies, TV, books, comics, and or music all matched with wine and wine education. Anyone in your life you think might be into that? Let them know about this podcast. that word of mouth, it is the best. It is the best way to uh be discovered is the best way to find a new listener. Now, don't just follow this podcast. Also follow us and interact with us on Substack. Just head to entertainment studios.com where you will find all our podcast episodes broken down by subject matter, articles on wine and entertainment, bonus pairings, interactive. polls, chats, pairing directories, covering all the wine and entertainment pairings we have ever done, once again broken down by subject matter and updated weekly. Woo! Now, some of this is only available to paid subscribers of our Substack. And that's a great segue to mention that you can support this podcast by heading over to Substack and going paid. That is just on the low end, two bucks a month. Gets you access to, frankly, everything.$2 a month or $19.60. per year. And for the big spenders out there, you can also become what Substack calls a quote unquote founding member, though we cleverly retitled this tier as produce or get it, get it. You're our produce because we're wine and the produce and yeah, and it's about entertainment. So you're a produce produce or of this podcast and that you get. for $50 a year. This gets you a shout out on every single episode going forward and even allows you to commission an episode one per year telling us which movie, TV show, book, album or comic you want us to cover. And we have three produce hers that we are going to shout out today. So we have, we actually have two that are a little bit grandfathered in because they are at the $50 a year tier. They, got this before we lowered the annual amount to $19.60. So now they are relegated to the producer tier because they are paying us $50 a year. that is Kate Rushell. Woohoo! She is a fellow substacker as well. She does Survives on Wine, a Portuguese wine expert. And she also, she guest starred on an episode of this podcast about a year ago. She did a music album, uh La Revancha Del Tiro. Pango by the Gotan Project, two part episode, amazing two part episode. Go back and listen to that if you have not already. That is Kate Ruschel and you can find her on survivesonwine.substack.com. Then we have Paul K or Paul Kalmkearian and he is a podcaster in his own right. He has Wine Talks with Paul K. Look that up on any podcasting platform if you can. Paul K is our number two. And then just yesterday, joining their ranks is author, uh horror and fantasy author extraordinaire Jessica Mayson. She has joined the founding member tier as well. She's getting a shout out. Thank you so much, Jessica. I just messaged her today to let her know she's commissioned an episode. What does she want us to cover? We'll find out. And I'll reach out to Kate and Paul as well to see what they want to commission. So if you would like your own episode commissioned and get a shout out every episode, ah you know where to find us. That is entertainment studios dot com. That is our substack. That's where you can find us. And we hope to see you there. Even if you don't, believe it or not, throw money at us like the cheap hookers that we are. Sweet. OK, Dallas, let's talk about the wines we're drinking today and pair with this movie, Love and Death on Long Island. We're to start there. So what do you have? What did you pair with this? This is the first time either of us saw this movie. ah Neither of us heard about it until Decarceleration Lad put it on our radar. We talked a little bit about this before we started recording and we both think this is quite a gem. So what did you pair with this gem of a forgotten film? Let's see. I initially thought I wanted something as I was watching that sort of complemented the austerity of this because it is pretty austere. a pretty simple is the wrong word. It's a pretty uh efficient film. It is a pretty fucking efficient film emotionally in terms of the set pieces, the arcs, very efficient. ah And I thought I wanted something that sort of complemented that. ah But as I was watching, I realized it's a really easy film to enjoy. um Yes. know, being that first of all, first of all, I thought it was honestly, I thought the film was a late 80s film until I remembered Jason Priestley being sort of at the height of his Beverly Hills 902 or the end of the height of the Beverly Hills 902. Right. era. um And so the film came out in 97, which kind of blew me away. I thought it was at least a decade older than that or, you know. That's interesting. That's interesting. I feel like this feels very late 90s to me from an art house cinema perspective. I like this is more of a 90s uh where it fits rather than but of course the fake films they're making are incredibly 80s. yeah. they're yeah early eighties but the film itself because they do a really good job of not not sort of allowing the set pieces to kind of date themselves it's a pretty sort of open-ended kind of palette you know in terms of the backdrop the setting the characters whatnot so it took me a moment to remember that Jason Priestley was as I said sort of at the end of the height of Beverly Hills 90210 fame and I had to go back and check the date of release halfway through the film. I was like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, when was this released? And, uh you know, so it reminded me uh that it was a really easy film. I was expecting something completely different. First of all, from these two actors, ah Jason Priestley has never been high on my radar in terms of his acting chops, which we'll get into later. He's expertly crafted for this role. It's like the universe made him for this fucking role. uh He got to deliver, and he gets to deliver a very natural performance because, right? Yes, uh a fake version of... his heighten version of his true life self. Absolutely. And that's one of the things he mentions in lot of the commentary. So anyway, in terms of the wine pair, uh I decided to go with something that had a little bit of uh a little bit of refinement, but also a little wildness to it. Something that was most importantly, easy drinking. So I went with an easy drinking a rosé. And it's one we found called the shit show rosé also really just love the brand. title. The brand name. So yeah, I went with an easy drinking rosé grape from Washington. It's a blend of I think Sarah, cab Merlot and maybe there's Shiraz in there. Maybe I don't remember. uh But yeah, rich fruity. Yeah, nothing crazy. Very easy drinking. This film, didn't need to engage too much uh in order to stay ah with it. It everything moved on its own. It was a fully realized film and a fully realized glass of wine. So what about you? What you got? Okay, well hold on. Tell us a little bit more of it. So it's the shit show Rosé. What? Where's it from? It's Washington. It's a Washington uh rose. I think their offices are in PA. um Maybe the brand began in PA. not sure. I couldn't find much information on them there. But the film also is distinctly like Eastern Seaboard, the whole feel, right? I mean, it's set in Long Island, of course, right? I think they filmed in Nova Scotia. uh And I forget the other city that doubled for exteriors in Long Island. So the feel is very, very sort of ah It's a Canadian British co-production. Nothing to do with America whatsoever. It's not too ah seeing it, were also cinephiles. And two of them saw it when it came out and remember falling in love with it and then forgot it, which is amazing because it's a pretty I'm not gonna say it's forgettable, but I think people who see this film and enjoy it, it's easy to forget because nothing necessarily stands out as aggressive or assertive. It's just so well-rounded, so well-balanced and easy, just like this rosé. um yeah, it's pretty fruity, actually. And you said it's a blend of what? I said it early. It's a blend of a cab, Merlot and Sarah. And I think there's a Shiraz maybe in there. I don't remember specifically. Isn't that the same thing as a sera? Yeah, of course. you know, it's why in education. we got to, you know. Okay, okay. there's Sera and Shiraz in here, I'm like... huh. you go. Now sometimes Shiraz is used. Normally a winemaker would not use both words in the same bottle that would that would be baffling. Like I would have to know what the hell they're even meaning to say if a winemaker chose to do that. But Sarang Shiraz Shiraz is the Australian word for Sarah. Same grape genetic. No difference whatsoever. But a lot of people will use Shiraz even outside of Australia to denote an Australian style of Sarah wine, where it's like they're making it a bit bolder, a bit jammy or a bit like from a warmer, bolder climate. um And so they'll say Shiraz if it's like expect more of an Australian style of Sarah versus what you might get from France. You might get from California or Washington. Washington tends to be a cooler climate. So you tend to get less Australian versions. Now, one thing to note about the show, Rose guys did a quick Google search, roughly 20 bucks a bottle is where you can find it. But it does come both dry and sweet. So Dallas, I'm assuming you did the dry. I did the dry. As I said, it is surprisingly fruity. think the dry sort of uh compounds the fruitiness of the grape. um So it's really fruity for being uh as dry as it is. uh I mean fruit fruity fruitiness and dry have nothing to like so going back to the wine education They technically have nothing to do with each other So you can have a bone dry wine and still be very fruit forward That is a different the bone dryness just means they did not leave any literal sugar in the wine Yeah, the quote-unquote sweetness of the wine beyond literal sugar is its own scale and spectrum that is that goes beyond that but this the the shit show was a note folks Don't make it does say sweet on the front of the bottle. If it's the sweet version, the sweet version, they mean literal sugar in that point. That's going to be like a semi an off dry or semi sweet rosé, probably not like dessert wine levels of sweetness. It's a full sized bottle. So probably it's just like semi sweet, but they do come in both semi sweet and dry. We're recommending the dry, but you do you. All right. So for me, I actually went the opposite direction. I agree with you. This is a very easy watch like it. It's so well made. The performances are so come across so natural, but this is a story about a fish out of water. You you've got John Hurt's character who is he, we're going to talk more about the plot of this movie in just a moment, but you know, he's a widower, a novelist. ah So alone, very old, ah used to be in a heterosexual relationship. But when he becomes obsessed with Ronnie Bostock, he becomes obsessed with him in in specific way. in very specific and quick way. And this is his exploration of his own sexuality, the John Hurt character where he's like, he plainly doesn't understand what's happening to him at first. And and yet he's also there, but he's also very cagey about it. He's also very defensive about it. And he does kind of understand what he's doing by the time he's traveling to America. But the interesting part of this movie is he does it all sort of unspoken. Right. It doesn't come out and tell you that this is what is happening. but you know that that is what is happening. then it becomes the low key hilarity that I said ensues. It's a lot of awkwardness. It's a lot of him. He has been uh somewhat of a hermit and a miser in his widowed years. Like you can tell he's an author. He's a novelist. He pooh-poos everything about modern society and what the young kids are doing and whatnot. then. This is a thumbnail actually, this is a thumbnail as a character thumbnail of who he is in this moment. He actually has to ask his friends what a sitcom is. Yes. So that tells you who he is. He's an old world sort of approach to storytelling. uh has to buy a VHS player. Great scenes, by the way. Yeah, yeah. So he can play, and even a TV, he's like, oh, I need a TV. Like, he eschewed all of modern appliances in society. You can tell he was set in his way. Just to describe that scene a second. essentially he gets obsessed with the character, the young character. The film initially is called, what's the name of the fictional film again? I always forget the title, I've forgotten it. Hot pants. oh pants college too. So he has to go to a video store to get a copy of hot pants college to the exchange between the guy at the counter at the video store and him when he has to ask for hot pants college to is so nails on a chalkboard. It is so just it is there's such dissonance in the moment. So then he rinsed the tapes and he gets a guy who delivers the VHS player and he has no idea that you need a television in order to the tape. It's beautiful. Yeah, it's beautiful. Well, and that's the thing this movie does it's funny, but it doesn't it sounds broad comedy. It sounds ridiculous. It's not right. It's very in fact, when you watch a hot pants college to like you get to see scenes from Ronnie Bostock's fake filmography, right? And like they put those scenes together. Those are broad over the top crazy comedy like they're meant to be those college sex comedies of the time of the era from the 80s 70s and 80s. the Porky style uh era. And this the mood this movie though, it's very subdued. It's very subtle. Everything is done very straight. And it's funny. But it's not they do not work it up for the laughs. It's just like, he doesn't know you need a TV like that's it. He's like, Oh, no, what? Well, okay, I guess I'll go by. But then, now that he's got this be in his bonnet about Ronnie Bostock, he just does like no resistance. He's like, well, then I'm buying a TV. Well, then I'm buying a VHS player. I guess I am gonna go. And yes, he didn't want to say the name of the thing at first he gets over himself a little bit later. And then in that exchange where he's trying he doesn't want to say hot pants college too. And the video clerk guy is like, he just he knows this guy and this is he's in Britain at the time. And he knows this guy's just a stuffy older Brit. And so the clerk just wants him to say it and it becomes this battle. Like he's just like, no, no, no. I want you to say this title. Not that this guy's really judging him or anything. He doesn't give a shit, but he just wants the stuffy older British guy to like get over himself and say the fucking movie. Yeah, right, right, right. But it's fun to watch those exchanges. So there is a and then even when John Hurt goes to America and then of course has to interact with Ronnie Bostock. between Ronnie Bostock and Ronnie Bostock's girlfriend. We'll get to that in minute here. is charming awkwardness is the best way to describe this film. But it is very fish out. There's the fish out of water element and then the uncomfortableness of what is this character, John Hurt's character is actually trying to do. And you know what he's trying to do the whole way through. And you're like, this, I'm so charmed. want everyone you like everyone in this course, you see destruction coming. Oh god, this is not going to end well, but I want to see him get close. I know. You don't want to see anyone suffer because everyone seems authentically nice and a decent person and like everyone not knowing what the the motivations of certain characters might be. They want like they want to see each other succeed and do well and blah blah blah. So like nobody. The problem is, is you're sitting there as a viewer. And yes, this is easy watching. But at the same time, there is that oh, crap, this can't end well. This is going to become a train wreck. then you have to watch the charming awkwardness, which is charming, but also awkward. So I chose a wine that's kind of opposite. I chose a wine that always challenges me. But that I enjoy. But I always enjoy with an asterisk next to that enjoyment, where it's always like, yes, but yes. But and there is something about it that I never just effortlessly enjoy it. I always have to think through it a little bit. I always have to chew on it a little bit and I always have to. It leaves me a little uncertain and a little unsatisfied. And that is the grape Alianico and Alianico. This is an Italian grape. um From what I could dig up about it, they have no idea. What? For sure. discussed this on one of our earlier episodes actually. We've never been able to find whatever its parent grapes were. They're long gone. We don't know them. Like, so we've done genetic testing. It does not genetically connect to any other known grape variety of the thousands that currently exist in the world. Like nothing. No one knows where this fucking thing came from. And they're not even sure. They thought that it might have come from Greece originally before becoming part of Italy. um But They can't say for sure on that because nothing in Greece matches it either. And they've never found any plantings in Greece. So they're like some some of the even the word Alianico. And by the way, Alianico, that's Aglianico, A-G-L-I. So Aglianico. But in Italian, A-G is like is kind of an O-L sounds like olive. So it's like Alianico is how you pronounce it. And this Alianico Aglianico Even though they're not even sure where the word comes from. They have no idea what the etymology is. They there are suggestions, but they've never been able to trace anything back to prove any of the possible suggestions. One of the reasons they thought maybe it was a Greek grape is they thought the etymology might tie back to certain Greek things and words. But then they've never found a trace of plantings to ever have existed in Greece. So no one can prove anything about this grape. However, it is known. If you need a comparable, for those of you who like Barolo and Nebbiolo, that's one of the great grapes in age worthy and also challenging grapes of Italy. It is kind of thought of as the Barolo of the South, quote unquote, is what they like to call it because Barolo comes from Piedmont. Piedmont's way up there in the north of Italy. And this is mostly from the Campagna region, which is very southern. If Italy is a boot, It's a Basilicata. It's Basilicata and Campania. These are the two places where Alianico is grown very close to Greece. is the end. is where the foot is, but not the heel, not the toes. It's the dead center part of the of the bottom of the the boot. And that is Basilicata. And right above that is Campania, a little more uh inland, a little more where is Basilicata is down. It has a lot more coastline to it. So. Basilica in Basilicata, you basically get a leonoco Del Vulture is the place where they grow a leonoco there. Or in Campania, you're going to get Tarassi is kind of the big known place where a leonoco is grown. So I tried two different a leonocos with this movie to see how they went. I tried one that was a Campania. uh question for you Dave actually how did you get to the Alianico in terms of like deciding on that was the grape was that before did you decide before watching the film or as you were watching the film So I decided because I originally watched this film, I watched it first before Dallas. So this was my second time watching it. So I was able to, you know, know what I was trying to pair it with. Bring it to the table. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So this was my second viewing. And then I was like, Dallas, he needed to see it before our decarceration lad episode coming up anyway. So I'm like, this this one's worth talking about on its own. Let's talk about this movie on its own. So I did I have this Campania IGP. Allianico from Italy. IGP is it means it doesn't come from any place in specific within Campania. It's the whole of Campania. But it's the larger region. Now, this is like a 20 to $30 bottle of Allianico not too bad. Allianico can age because it's really got a lot of it's got decent body, a lot of tannins in Allianico thick skin grape. So this one, I did this one and then I did a Paso Robles, Allianico. And this is a Giornata uh Allianico from uh and this is a group Giornata is a group that does all Italian grapes in Paso. They're very into trying to grow Italian grapes in California and make it bring that Italian culture here. This is from the French Camp Vineyard in Paso Robles. uh Allianico in Paso, there are only uh 73 acres of Allianico planted in that area. not a lot, but 73 acres does roughly equal about 225,000 bottles, what is what can be made with 73 acres. So on a global scale, that is not a lot. m But that is, and of course there's no guarantee like a lot of that Alianico is probably going into blends. A lot of that, we don't know what kind of yields they're actually getting there. They're the finer and better quality of the wine, the more they're going to restrict the yield so that it's actually growing less per acre. But it's still going to be a decent number of bottles. So this bottle, if you order it from the winery direct, the GR Nada, it's $40 a bottle. But I got this in K &L wines and K &L had this for 22 bucks. So they got a deal on on this wine. So if you're if you live on the west coast, and you can or KNO will ship to the L you can order online. I highly recommend grabbing this Paso Alianico. I think this is the one that I picked above the Italian one for me. Because Alianico, the reason that challenges me, it's a very it has this very sour tart, fruit flavor to it. um I never knew what to really call it until I remembered me and Dallas went to this restaurant recently called Voodoo Vin, where they had this dish that had barberries on top of it. yeah. And I remembered I'm like, motherfucker, it tastes like a dried barberry. Barberry is a Persian berry. You can find if you go to like a fancy food ah grocery store, they will probably have dried barberries there. Try buy a little bit of them. Try them. They're very sour tart. They're very red fruit, sour tart. So Ali Annako, it's like a barberry meets a raspberry. And then it's got, it definitely has like a decent amount of acidity, like medium to medium plus acidity. So it's like, you're getting that more tartness from that acidity. And it's, it's, and you're getting that nice salivation and then these fine, but very present tannins like Ali Annako can age for like a decade or two easily because of the tannic and acid. profile. So it gets smoother and better over time. But that sour tartness and then in I think in Italy and also they grow they make it so that it's more earthy less fruit forward. So you get the sour tart earthy and there's always like I need more sweetness to this wine quote unquote sweetness. I need more fruitiness and honestly the Paso comes a little closer to that being a California wine being from the very warm climate of Paso, it still has mostly that barberry sourness to it, like sour cherry barberry type of flavor to it. And that challenges me. not sure how much I like it, but I'm not sure how much I love it. And so I sit there with it. Ali Anniko is one of those that I always want to try. And I never know, I can never figure out how much I actually enjoy it. I enjoy it up to a point for sure. I just don't know how much. I see that I'm I'm like that with uh Nebbiolo and for a similar actually wondering if this was what you're like with tempera neo, because you always drink it and yet you complain about it constantly. Yeah. but here's the thing for me. It's just because I dislike something or I have difficulty. It almost makes me want to try it more frequently to see if I can find my way in. But that initial like, you know, initial sort of reaction is almost always present with temp for me. But but in terms of the uh Alianco, I have a similar reaction to the Nebbiolo. uh But yeah, I get it. Yeah. Yeah, that's so I recommend both of these bottles you can get between like that. If you get it from K &L, you can get the even the Paso one for around 22 bucks. The Campagna one also roughly like 20 to 25 most places. And then if you buy direct from the winery for the Paso one, it is 40 bucks a bottle actually, technically. So hey, that's a good deal. But yeah, Alianico because it's challenging. It's nice. And yet that sour tartness, the earthiness, that acidity. This movie is easy watching, it's also it keeps you it's so gentle in its flow and pacing and tone, but you're braced ready for what's coming. And you're like, shit. And even when it comes, it's weirdly gentle yet hard. Yeah, it's it's a fascinating movie. So let's talk about this movie more now that we've revealed the wines we're drinking with this and Dallas, you got a quote. do have a few quotes. So one thing about this film is it's there's a core group of people of the audience who just really loves this movie. Everyone else seems to be kind of on the fence because I think people were expecting fireworks and it's a slow burn. It's a very hard housey. It's very restrained. And I will say it is some masterful filmmaking. kinds of things are the reasons we were speaking about earlier, but specifically, and I think it's a testament to the script and John Hurt's approach to acting. John Hurt, if you guys don't remember, uh he played uh the fool in a version of King Lear, ah which starred ah not John Gilgud, I'm forgetting his name now, but a wonderful fucking production of uh of King Lear. And one thing you notice when you're watching him perform is there's almost this omnipresent undercurrent of sinister, potential sinisterness, like potential. ah It's it's evil is the wrong word. But at any moment you feel like anger is just going to spew from this person. and lay waste to everything in its uh perspective. That is so important to the performance, his performance in this film, because there's such restraint on a top level for this character, his presentation. There is such restraint. But you can tell that there is something simmering beneath this character at every moment in every frame. And what's important about it is you don't know what the thing, what's what, what is actually simmering beneath it. That's what's so important, I think about is interesting about his performance is you don't actually know what's underneath there. ah So that's, you're talking about bracing when you're watching this film. think that has a lot to do with it because his performance is so layered that you don't actually know which option he's going to take with each moment. It's almost like a surprise, a discovery. And I get why you pair the uh Agliani-Aliyanenko now with that. Right. Well, and I think with his character, too, we're coming in at the end of his life. Right. And so we don't actually know anything about this character. We don't know what he's like. We don't know where he's come from. We don't know what his personality is. We see this hermit slash widower novelist who's just kind of been on his own and been in his own little bubble for a long, time. But outside of that, we're like, but what is underneath? Like, what is likely? Now that he's coming out of his shell, what is even likely to emerge? We don't know. And so because we have no context for this character, it's like, okay, something's going to emerge. And John Hurt has just this amazing poker face where looks emotive, like he's feeling something, but you don't know what, you know? And so you're like, okay. And I do think the story, whether this came from the novel originally and it probably did at least to a point or the script, and we didn't even mention it's based on a novel, we'll get to that in just a moment. em But regardless, we don't actually know this character. We're coming in at the end of his life and we're like, who are you? And we got to find that out along the way. And so we're ready for anything. Anyway, ah some quotes. ah Critic Roger Ebert, of course, gave the film three and a half stars and praised Hurt for giving Day Off uh a dignity that transcends any snickering amusement at his infatuation, which is a great quote, by the way. um And actually, it's a good point. This film does a very good job once you realize he is onboarding into an infatuation. uh once you do realize that there is that moment where you're it is a sort of almost a cosmic snicker it's like here we go again the old guy getting obsessed with the young hot Again, this movie, this movie makes you feel empathy for everybody. Really good at that. And I, know, uh clearly Ebert noticed that and decided to put that to record. So uh Jonathan Rosenbaum of the Chicago Reader called the film perfectly realized, beautifully acted and sweetly hilarious. I like that phrase, sweetly hilarious. uh A witty, canny meditation of the power of pop culture in general and the rationalizations of cinephilia and film criticism in particular. And to his credit, okay, that's a bit of a reach, I get it, get it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I get I'm like, OK, film critic, this is not about you. Calm down buddy, calm down. I'm like, no, not really, not really film critics. Just because the guy talks, yeah, just because the guy's an old world writer and he has issues with nonsensical 80s films, which happen to just briefly be mentioned in the course of this film, it isn't exactly a film, it's a rationalization. It's not actually, right, right, right, right. It's not actually obsessed or even interested in those really. So yeah. So this film, it's based on a novel by a Scottish writer and journalist, Gilbert Adair. He was critically most famous for the quote unquote fiendish translation of Georges Perrec's postmodern novel, A Void, in which the letter E is not used anywhere in the novel. This was very infamous back in the day. I remember this novel. I remember when it came out and everyone was like, it was the challenge to read this fucking thing. So it was, you know, I'm trying to think what a modern day equivalent of that, but it's like some sort of fucking YouTuber TikTok challenge these days type of a thing. Like it was just that thing that you need to like everyone had to try to do. It was a social moment, a water cooler moment. was a cultural kind. It was a cultural moment. It was definitely a cultural moment. Yeah. And he is also known for the film adaptations of his novels, including Love and Death on Long Island uh and The Dreamers, the 2003 movie. The novel, uh this novel, actually Love and Death on Long Island is partly a satire of Thomas Mann's novel Death in Venice. um And Gilbert de Deere is on record as saying, yes, that was in part what I was doing here. But The film Love and Death on Long Island, which is directed and adapted by British Polish director, I'm going to try to pronounce his name here, but it is Richard Kwiatniewski. Kwiatniewski. what I'm oh Yes, it's KW but then IET so like quiet in that way. it's but with a KW so I'm like quite Nielski or quite Nielski something like that. By the way, any Polish listeners out there, please feel free to correct us in the comments. don't. Just say, give us a golf clap and say like, good job. Good job. You did it perfectly. You did it. Say it in that accent too. Richard Richard quit Nioski was based on the on the 1990 novel the film the dreamers released in 2003 was directed by Bernardo Bertolucci with a script by a dare now a dare did not get to write the script for love and death on Long Island that one was written by the director quite Nioski And that was based on a Dare's book, The Holy Innocence, The Dreamers was based on the book, The Holy Innocence, which a dare revised and re-released under the same title as the movie after the fact. So now the novel is The Dreamers as well with the movie. A dare collaborated on the screenplays of several Rol Ruiz films, including The Territory from 1981, Klimt from 2006 and A Closed Book in 2010. Adair was gay himself, though he rarely talked about the matter, not wishing it to be labeled. A quote from him, quote, Obviously, there are gay themes in a lot of my novels. ah But I really wouldn't be happy to be thought of as a quote unquote gay writer. Being gay hasn't defined my life. Nice. Now, it should be mentioned that and I don't I've not read the novel. So I don't know how he handles this in the novel itself, but it pretty much is never outright mentioned. The word gay, the word homosexual. Nobody says it. Nobody comes out and says it anywhere in this. Yes, it is up to the viewer to just understand exactly what is happening here. Exactly. And the film is not being. subtle about it per se. just refuses to say it, say it. And now, according to the director as well, this was interesting, I thought. So this was uh quite Nioski's feature directorial debut. It was the British Canadian co-production. The film was critically acclaimed, but performed poorly at the box office. It brought in only two point two eight million pounds on a two point three million pound budget. So it basically made exactly its budget at the box office. which is not enough. that lost money. um Kwiatniewski would only make one more feature length film, which was 2003's owning Mahoney or Mahowny. Mahowny. However you pronounce that Mahoney. OK, it's with it's with it's spelled weird, um but starring Philip Seymour Hoffman, Minnie Driver and again John Hurt. And it once again was critically acclaimed. Roger Ebert called it one of the top 10 films of twenty two thousand three. It only made one million at the box office on a $10 million budget. So Kwiatkowski does. But, know, again, critically acclaimed. I think he probably is a really good filmmaker. I think he keeps writing these scripts as well. I think he's a good writer. Yeah. Yeah. But I can also see why these films quietly just don't leave an impact because they are very understated. You have to just discover them. I think that is especially back in the 90s during the indie film heyday where you had the leave your mark indie filmmakers like That's what everyone was rushing to do. Wachowski's, Tarantino, Robert Rodriguez, and then here's this guy just making these very, very touchy. love and romance and pining stories. And had those films honestly been released in the early 80s or late 70s, they probably would have caught fire in a different way. I think more because yeah, for sure. But I think because of that mid 90s indie kind of, it was basically the indie sort of renaissance, I suppose, where everyone had decided you kind of had to make a quirky dissonant look. that was sort of indie, small budget, moderate, whatever it is, that left people wondering what the fuck in many different ways. ah And this is just the exact opposite of that. yeah. Yes, this is is quirky and subtler ways. mean, the quirkiest parts are when you get to see the fake movies within it, the hot pants. But they're they're great setups. It reminds me actually the hot pants college to thing. If anyone has seen I saw the TV glow. It reminds me a lot of the fake television show in I saw the TV glow show that they watched in that one. I saw it. I'm already forgetting. I know, I know. I'm forgetting the name of that show. ah But in any event, whatever that fake TV show in that one was, this is very, it's done very similarly in this one. um So here's the interesting part. According to Kwiatniewski as well, talking about this movie, quote, I came across the novel by Gilbert Adair many years ago by chance, and I read it just for pleasure, but immediately loved it and started fantasizing about how it could make a rather wonderful film. I like the two cultures thing. I like the fact that it's about an obsession because a lot of my favorite films are about obsession. I wanted to make a film that in some way quoted a certain type of American culture and sort of oppose it with this very kind of old fashioned English culture. Audiences around the world tend to recognize both these extremes and enjoy it. The interesting thing about that, he also refuses to mention anything about the gay in talking about this film. here's what's curious about it. um He does a very good job of Easter eggs laying little subtle sort of literary Easter eggs in ah the film. There's a scene when John Hurt's character Giles or Giles Giles um is at his desk and he takes a call picks up the phone and right next to the phone is a book by Arthur Rimbaud. If you guys aren't familiar with who Arthur Rimbaud is, he's a poet. uh He is sort of, he's required reading for any young gay artist or person who is sort of romantic in any sense, ah who uh has a sort of an open mind towards uh homosexuality. It's just, I mean, it is required reading every little gay has probably read the book. Every poet, he died, I think, at age 37. His poems and his poetry and his writing, you know, he was mercurial, he was misanthropic in many ways, he was troubled, and he was just passionate, but also sort of a recluse sometimes. so writers through the years have consistently and constantly taken their own sort of interpretation of his work. so it is essentially, I would say, if there's like a a must read book list for any young literary gay. uh It is that book and it was so fascinating to see them focus on that right next to the phone. ah So I get the desire not to make this a gay film. uh Do I think the audience would have probably shown up uh that specific audience in a big way? Had this been marketed as a gay film? Sure. But it, uh you know, I think especially in 1997, though, so you know both the director and the novelist are are gay in real life. Yeah. And so this was and I read all the interviews I could about this book and about this movie, especially this movie. And I mean it was plainly a choice. Yeah, oh it's like we are not going to bring it up. We're not going to focus on it. We're not going to talk about it. Not in that way. We're going to talk about the culture clash. the differences in age, but it was very much they couched it all in these terms. And it's interesting because you get it. think especially in 1997, maybe that was even more smarter than it would be today. I probably wouldn't be smart today to not mention it. It's like you should embrace that. audience. as a writer myself I would I would be like any for any no don't ever put the word gay on my shirt I will fight you'll show up at your home and I will knock you out. But but it's interesting, though, just because this story, this particular story and this particular character, it is and for and you know, the movie doesn't have to it doesn't come out to say one way or the other. Like John Hurt's character, Giles, is he bi or is he gay? Like when he was married to a woman was that was he just, you know, uh lying to himself kind of a thing. Or does he does he just swing both ways and he never brought up he never allowed himself to think about it until now. Okay, another point from the film, uh masterful filmmaking. This is a kind of a master class in subtle filmmaking. It is so good. So uh there was a moment when a John Hurt character goes over to their house and they're sitting down in the living room with Jason Priestley for the first time. And she says, you you can smoke in the house. And uh they ask him, John Hurt's character, about his marriage. And he says, well, was a she was a quite a bit older than I was. So there's this concept of lavender marriages and it particularly in this era and tend to be pretty popular in uh the UK. uh But. It's often an older woman with a slightly younger man until these lavender marriages where it's a gay and a straight woman. And uh Jason Priestley says at the very next beat. yeah, like me and whatever his girlfriend's name is. And John Hurt's character, John Hurt's character, it is so subtle. It is so good. Like I had to pause the movie and go, fuck yeah, this is why I do what I do. This guy should make it an award just for this look. But he just sort of looks over at her and goes, I'm like, bro, come on. It's just so good. It's so good. So subtle. So subtle. I and that is the joy of this film is its subtlety, but it's subtlety that you can notice. Yeah. Right. It's like it is that sweet spot where it's like you're not it's not like you have to watch it 10 times to notice any of this shit. It's like you get it on first watch and you watch these moments and these reactions. And I will say I will also give a shout out to the girl who plays Jason Priest's girlfriend, Fiona Lowy, ah who has not done to She's done a little bit since this movie, but not enough because she was very good It's a very subtle part. It's not overly written. There's no great dynamic to it. Her greatest sort of challenge, I think, in the entire piece was when she started to put it together, you know, and she was like, why don't you call that niece you said is a big fan of his? her. Give her a call right now. Honestly, don't think she said that because she was putting it together. Yeah, I think that's when she started putting it together was his complete befuddlement at such a simple ask. And that's where she was like, wait. oh funny you say that because she had a look at him in the frame right before that was sort of like, huh. And then she sat down next to Priestley in that moment and her entire sort of demeanor changed. It was a little aggressive in that moment. So that's why I say she'd, think she'd started to put together in that in that moment, yeah, but in that in that exact moment. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. OK. But she didn't come into that scene already. right. It's just as like, you're wonderful. And I love that you love my boyfriend and want to write a script for him and blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, think everyone again, everyone's so. Everyone is so empathetic, especially given the situation like John Hurt's character is empathetic, even though he's digging his own grave and he is. oh You know, everything he's doing is sort of like John Hurt. Come on. I know. It's like kids alone. Oh my God. But he's but he can't I think this is that thing he is at the end of his life in terms of years. It's desperation. He's in his twilight years. Right. And he's never done anything like this. He's never allowed himself to do anything like this. And once he starts down that road, he cannot stop. All the feelings are- He's going like he's got to pursue this to the bitter end. You see it in him because it's so against type. It's so against character. But once he starts, it becomes his character. And you're like, oh, OK, we're doing this. um And then it becomes a really engaging watch from that point forward. um Yeah. So it was OK. Anything we've obviously really liked this movie. We appreciated everything it was doing any. Do you have any criticisms for this movie? Was there anything that you would say did not work as well or anything whatsoever? Because I'm I'm going to be honest. I don't think I do really. I get I do give it I have to take it to task for like making a film that was impossible to market and impossible to draw an audience to. Like I do think that was one of the downfalls of this film. You watch it you're like What is the one minute trailer that gets people to come to this and buy a ticket? And that is tough. um So I take it to task for that, but the film as an experience is fantastic. It's absolutely in a vacuum. This is a near perfect sort of at that. I mean, it just it sings on every level. I will say in terms of the marketing, I imagine what probably happened at some point in the conversation for distribution for this film marketing for this film is Jason Priestley's brand at the time. He was without question, probably top three. uh What are they called? uh Young hot studs in Hollywood. What are they called? There's a term for them. Jesus Christ. It boy. We'll go with it boy. It boy. I'm not even sure I know the term. Cliff of the Day, Top 3 Hot Studs by Dave. ah You can tell which one of us is not gay. What's it called? It boy of the time. His brand was pure it boy. mean, he 1997, you know, it was that was the brand. was 90210. I mean, he was the hottest thing in town. And he in a couple of interviews, he mentioned he wanted to do this film because one, it was sort of a degree or two separation from what he was experiencing in real life. So his quotes about this film were the reason he took it. was because it sort of shed light on his actual experience of people projecting onto him as a sort of quote unquote matinee idol, as a prime time idol, uh which I think was fascinating. But in terms of marketing, how do you market this film? Because it is clearly Jason Priestley, the heartthrob, that's the phrase I'm looking for, god damn it. A heartthrob, probably one of the biggest heartthrobs of the day in... a really intimate relationship with this older individual. I imagine that had a lot to do with sort of backing this into a corner and not uh giving it its full sort of do. I also think that might be kind of the reason that the idea of using the terminology gay in any of the marketing might have also been part of no, that would have been a no-go. Yeah, I think in 1997, no one no one wanted to do that. I think they would have it would have necrophied it too much. They actually heard that it would have necrophied it too much. But I also think that in this movie itself, like there is no relationship between the two male leads per se, not in any like not in anything where the marketing becomes a problem, not in any way to where it It's such a it basically doesn't in the same way that the word gay doesn't exist in this movie. Neither does that. Right. It's like these things are sort of curiously. They dance around it without actually going there without actually going to it. And I think I mean, if anything, I would be like, yeah, get all get all the the teen girls to be like, no, no, no, don't let the old man turn you, Jason. Oh, we're We're coming. We're going to come. We're to come watch this. And that's why we know. you market any films, uh you have getting all the ladies in there to be like, No, we're gonna watch this. it or or you know, maybe maybe that is the dream. It's like, Jason, are you that way? Like maybe that makes us want you all the more right? Who knows? But I was just gonna say even just from a story concept, like what is this movie about? And what is it exploring? And so much of the movie is just you don't know even as you're watching you're like, where is this gonna go? Like how far is this gonna go? Like obviously, you know what John Hurt's character is up to. But the movie takes its sweet time with like getting him there with him kind of coming to understand that like, yeah, I'm gonna go to America and do this. Okay. And it's all every step of the way you're like, okay, all right, I don't know. But you're not sure what the next scene is where the next scene is gonna take it. You never know any. So it's a simple, straightforward movie or story in a way. And in another way, utterly unpredictable. You just don't know what the hell these characters are gonna do next and what the next scene is gonna bring. other critique is the fucking title of this film. Uh-huh. I mean, yes, they mentioned Long Island once. Uh-huh. They mentioned it. Uh-huh. It's mentioned. Those words feature once. ah Where was the death? I mean, maybe the death of the infatuation. the title? Go ahead. Two things, it's a play on words because his name is. shit, right. had that's right. You're right. I still don't think that's the reason though No, no, no, no, no. Okay. All right. I'm probably and there's one more reason which I am going to tell Dallas right now and I'm going to cut it out of this podcast because it's too much of a spoiler. All right. So now that I've just told Dallas that in blue is P pick in mind a little bit. He's remembering, but it's true. But there is more reason why this this film is called Love and Death on Long Island. I like the title. I do agree. I think The title definitely did not stoke a swarm of people to come see it. From the pudding. Right. mean, regardless of your opinion on that title now in 2025, per se, we know no one, not a lot of people. Some people did, but not a lot. Right. And it's a title that feels very arthouse cinema. I definitely agree with that. Yeah. So it probably kept people from giving a toss or really wanted to go see it. I mean, I just remember I was young in 1997. This was like high school year or it was actually my first year in college, my freshman year of college. you know, a movie like this would not have interested me much then or I would have thought it wouldn't have interested me. I think I would have liked this even if I had seen it then, but I would have thought I would. the kind of kid I was at that point in time had they mentioned Arthur Rambeau or anything sort of remotely Shakespearean, I would be like, okay, yes, please, I'll go see it. you know, okay. But it's probably what I would have sought out. But yeah, I think that, again, I would love to see the marketing materials and conversations on this film, because I imagine it was not straightforward. uh think there were materials plural there's probably they typed up one paragraph they're like we're out of ideas release it it release it whatever it's gonna fail Right. Yeah. Oh, yeah. But in any event, yeah. So that is, you know, we cannot recommend this film enough. It is definitely a criminally underseen film. We had not heard of it before this coming on our radar. We'll talk a little bit more about this film when we have Decarceration Lad on a little bit later. Talk about fake movies within movies. um But until then, once again, for me watching this film, go find something I did, Alianico. But go find something that you enjoy but challenges you a little bit. Something you're not 100 % sure just how much you like it. Have that element of uncertainty and awkwardness in whatever it is you're drinking. That is what this movie requires for me to truly match it. And Dallas, you though, you want to go the easy drinking route. think for me it's sort of, Rosé occupies a similar space to popcorn in a movie for me. uh You know, I'm not a huge fan, but if it's there, yeah, it's pleasant. I'm snacking. It doesn't require a great deal of, you know, there's salt, there's crunch. are, know, sort of traditional things you might want. butter and fat as well. of oil and butter. So I would say get something that's kind of just easy drinking that doesn't require a whole lot of engagement because, you know, the film is a smooth ride, but it's interesting. Sweet. All right, folks, go watch Love and Death on Long Island 1997. You do have to rent it. It's not free streaming anywhere, I don't believe right at this moment in time. um But go pay that $3.99 rental fee. Well, well worth it. So we will be back in one week with another wine and entertainment pairing for your Vintertainment. Don't forget to answer the trivia question of the week. Which of those grapes is non self propagating non self pollinating? If you're a wine nerd. See if you can answer it without Google searching too deeply. Don't let Google feed you the answer. You can figure it out. And we will give you the answer next week. Ciao for now. Talk to everyone then. guys On the good news front, only was my spawn commentary accepted, apparently they love it. Good. So and now they're asking me if I might want to do the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles movie from the 1990s, the first one. Nice. So with a similar thing, like talk about the comics kind of a thing. And I'm like, Yeah, they're like, they're like, it's really, it's like, it's really good. And I'm like. And man, that was my learning curve one. like, I feel like I can do it so much better now that I've done it once. And I had to like re record sections so many times. It's funny, I listened to it and I can tell where the re records are. Like, I'm like, Oh, it doesn't sound right. I'm not just talking. It's like, and that's a little different in in in sound and tininess and background. Like everything. It's like, No, you can tell I just placed these two things together. It's not smooth. And I'm but anyway, And there are moments where I'm like, yeah, I know it's so dumb, but I can do better. So I might do it again. But it'll be a little while before that happens right away. But yeah, I'm excited. I'm excited. That's great. Yeah, that's, that's. That's going to, that's going to help us get some cred if we start doing the in theaters and things like that. It's like, I would recommend her on blue rays on like, you know, on a art house or what do they, what do they call those types of distributors when they like arrow and criterion they are. Yeah. Art House. Yeah, Art House works. That's the... works but there's a word for it when they do the restoration boutique boutique thank you yes yes yes boutique yeah beautiful you're a beautiful boutique Boutique. No, boutique. Yeah, but yeah, that's good though. That's great. That's great. Booty booty booty. It's all about the booty. oh Unfortunately. Unfortunately, Mr. Incredible Bulk, all about the booty. We gotta get new subscribers somehow and post them on the subscap, right? Well, right after you post your Wolverine shot. Yeah. We gotta gotta try and it's like, who's it's even a question as to like, which will attract which type of person, you know, because you never it's always one of those things where it's uh I would like, huh, are you going to attract all the ladies just because it is that thing like just like in real life kind of a thing where they're interested and you're like, why? Yeah, for me, it's always been straight women or straight dudes who are like, they're like, okay, that's the one I want to try. Okay, all right. Here we go.